To ask who the hell goes to a prom dressed like this?

[KimberleyClark]

www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/452679109983229/

Unbelievable.

@StupidSmallFruit

It is not a ‘moral issue’, but likewise is not empowering to go out in a dress that barely covers you. We know this for a stone cold fact, because men don’t do it. Don’t need to do it. Don’t want to do it.

They cover themselves up, because that’s the function of clothing. It is a complete and utter double standard that men get to just ‘be’ in normal clothes - that make them look good, attractive, even sexy. While women basically get naked.

I’m not for one minute saying women need to cover up. But the absolute double standard in the way some young women present is the elephant in the room. Ask yourself why your son isn’t rushing to go for a night out in a non-existent top, and skimpy shorts slashed up to his waist.

Excellent post. And I said earlier too, MEN don't dress this way. Why do (some) women think they have to dress like strippers/call girls/porn stars in order to look 'sexy' or appealing? My daughter (in her mid 20s) has NEVER dressed this way. I raised her better than that.

You don't think the whole purpose of that dress is for the male gaze?

It's an ugly dress; it's not stylish; it's not elegant. Its only purpose is to have men looking at the wearer.

My daughter (in her mid 20s) has NEVER dressed this way. I raised her better than that.

If you raised her well, she won't make moral judgements of people based on what they like to wear.

God, I'm so sick and tired of everything being 'empowering' vs dictatorial. It's OK to say to your teenage daughter, 'No' once in a while without fear of breaching human rights. No law against it, agreed, and your prerogative to disagree but if 'Yessing' your way through their lives is empowering, they're in for a shock when they come across people in the real world. And please do not try to tell me any teenage girl is wearing a dress like this, with no knickers, for the hell of it. History is full of girls sneaking out of the house in one outfit only to switch into something else, nothing new, but this is beyond grim. Let's see the boys in something skimpy with everything hanging out and see what we think then, eh?

Thank you. Excellent post. The "Iran" comments were so irrelevant here.

I don't know what the purpose of the dress is. You'd have to ask the person wearing it. She might think it's pretty, funny, fashionable, sexy, relativelu demure compared to what her friends wear, who knows. Doesn't matter. To assume that women choose their clothes because they WANT to be "judged" is just...Christ on a bike. Women can wear what the fuck they want. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

They want to be seen (feel free to use the word judged if you prefer) as sexy.

Heck, I had a rather more demure version of this dress 30 years ago and I definitely wanted to be seen as sexy in it. It worked ..... I snared my now DH with it 😂

I take it you haven't read The Guardian article linked in several posts?

You are extremely naive. It's got nothing to do with judging individual woman.

Underage for what?

16 is under the age of adulthood, of understanding that the heavily sexualised images all over the social media they subscribe to or tv they watch isn’t something to aspire to as a child or try to copy.
We should not be applauding children who want to copy this pornified image for a school party,

It’s deluded to think that cheering on a child dressed in a sexualised way is being supportive and encouraging self expression.

Wearing what the Hell you like as an adult woman isn’t what’s being debated.

You're the naive one for thinking I couldn't read something you like and disagree with it. Or for thinking dresses like this are something new. I had a sheer lace dress in the 90s and it was positively demure compared to what some of my friends wore. I wore it because I thought it was fashionable and that I looked good in it. I wasn't thinking about it being "empowering" and I wasn't thinking about men any more than I was at any other time. It was stylish and I felt good in it. That was all. Actually, on the occasions I did go out explicitly on the pull, I wore something else.

Women can wear what the fuck they like. The fact that so many people can't grasp that it means nothing more than that they like the dress is not the women's failing. It's absolutely nasty how many people are assigning a moral value to what a woman chooses to wear.

You are missing the point by several miles.

Women can wear what the fuck they like.

Yes, they can. That’s not at issue. (Although we aren’t necessarily talking about grown women here.)

The fact that so many people can't grasp that it means nothing more than that they like the dress

I can grasp that you think it means nothing more, but I think you’re wrong about that.

is not the women's failing.

The posters you’re debating these specific points with haven’t pointed to any failing on the part of a woman wearing this dress.

It's absolutely nasty how many people are assigning a moral value to what a woman chooses to wear.

It is, and this attitude has let men off the hook for sexual violence since... forever. But not all criticism of the dress on this thread is about judging the wearer. Most of it isn’t, in fact.

I don’t agree with the ‘I raised my DD better than that comments’, I don’t think we need to be judgy and pejorative in our thinking.

This isn’t about being derogatory towards individual women and their choices. It’s about questioning the bigger picture - the system. Society. The patriarchy that we all live in.

I won’t tell my daughter what to wear or not wear. But I do want to encourage her to believe that her currency is in her brain, rather than her appearance. I want her to come to that conclusion herself, and make her own choices based on that knowledge. You know, like boys and men do.

I find all these posts defending the outfit so ironic - they think they’re being supportive of women and their choices, but they’re supporting women’s choices in the context of a patriarchal society, which rates women on their looks, and men on their ability.

I’m here questioning the system which I think oppresses women and holds them back. I’m not questioning the dress per se.

Yes I agree. It’s so ironic that I’m the one being called misogynist for expressing distaste and sadness about the pornification of young women’s fashion. It’s this pornification that is misogynist. Get your tits and bum out otherwise you’re an unsexy frump. And I’m amazed that the halter neck figure hugging dress I linked to was described as frumpy.

And as has been mentioned men don’t go out in sparkly string vests to show off their pecs and six pack. Why is that?

Some men do

You’d be hard pushed to find many dresses like that who aren’t also pandering to the male gaze.

This is true.

I imagine loads of people do these days. Current fashion to have lots of patches of skin out and of course teens do these things best. Otherwise what would they have to look back and cringe about in 15 years time. I've seen far worse tbh

Isn't that part of the whole dress up culture, to be seen in the prettiest/sexiest dress. Otherwise they'd simply go out in jeans same as any other time. Sometimes it's nice to dress up for yourself but I doubt many would see this sort of dress like that. It's a dress to be seen in and to attract attention. Also these days it's not just boys they're looking for attention from.

This is interesting -

www.datingadvice.com/for-women/dr-gail-dines-growing-up-in-a-pornified-culture

Thank you! She is excellent on this. Here's her TED talk.

ps. The talk is only 13 minutes long, but everything you need to know about what's wrong with that dress is in the first 5 minutes 30 seconds.

I was about to say exactly the same thing.

Ten pages in and I’ve read the words slag, tart, stripper, prostitute, streetwalker, tacky, cheap. All of those tired old misogynist tropes from women, about a woman they don’t know just because she’s wearing a dress they don’t like. I fucking despair.

What’s next, a woman who wore a dress like that was ‘asking for it’?

The comments, well at least my comments, were about the dress not the woman wearing it.