Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Suella Braverman. Is she always like that or is she unwell?

547 replies

newnamethanks · 19/10/2022 10:34

Dear Lord above, I've seen people removed and banned from pubs for less. She's the Home Secretary. What have we come to?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Booklover3 · 19/10/2022 23:08

Do we expect the Pounds probably going to tank again?

Terhou · 19/10/2022 23:09

lightisnotwhite · 19/10/2022 22:09

She got into Cambridge though? Read law and is a barrister. Lived in France for two years as part the Erasmus scheme. I mean really she’s had a MN dream career (go to the Higher Education thread if you need evidence of how much Oxbridge means).
Surely we can’t be saying that all that success academically can still make you a knobber….

People who dealt with her as a barrister say she was useless. I remember a solicitor on here recounting how she took a returned brief (i.e. the original barrister instructed was unavailable) after which she was put smartly on their firm's "Never brief again" list.

IrisVersicolor · 19/10/2022 23:11

Booklover3 · 19/10/2022 23:08

I doubt if. If it’s coming it’s unlikely to be announced in the night?

No but she may be forced out tonight and announced tomorrow.

MumofHorace · 19/10/2022 23:13

IrisVersicolor · 19/10/2022 23:07

I need to go to sleep. But I feel like I’m waiting for Father Christmas.

Will she be gone by the morning?

Only if it’s possible to die of shame during the night…

Apileofballyhoo · 19/10/2022 23:15

What a rollercoaster. Can't say any of it is surprising though.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2022 23:16

Terhou · 19/10/2022 23:09

People who dealt with her as a barrister say she was useless. I remember a solicitor on here recounting how she took a returned brief (i.e. the original barrister instructed was unavailable) after which she was put smartly on their firm's "Never brief again" list.

Is she one of these people who was so shit that she was promoted to get them out of a particular department with the thought that she'd do less damage there?

So she was over promoted way above her ability and just got found out?

lightisnotwhite · 19/10/2022 23:23

IrisVersicolor · 19/10/2022 22:56

To get into Oxbridge you need a good memory, work hard and be good at exams. That’s it. You don’t need a highly developed intellect, to be original or to have emotional intelligence.

Truss, Braverman, Coffey and Patel are roughly as idiotic as each other. Two went to Oxbridge and the other two didn’t (Coffey started and failed the first year).

Which is fine but you still don’t get into Oxbridge even if you have a good memory, word hard and be good at exams. It’s not the Marines where anyone who meets the standard gets in. They have to choose you for a limited number of spaces.

Maybe they are shit in government but I don’t think you can say they are thick.

lightisnotwhite · 19/10/2022 23:26

Also Keir Starmer is Oxbridge so don’t expect miracles….

Novum · 19/10/2022 23:28

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2022 21:27

Jack Elsom AT JackElsom
🚨🚨🚨 Neither Wendy Morton nor Craig Whittaker are resigning.

Steve Baker tells me he has seen the deputy chief whip tonight, who reassured him neither are quitting tonight.

I feel the word "tonight" may be doing an awful lot of heavy lifting in that statement.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2022 23:29

I think at this point there will be a lot of late night meeting going on tonight. But we won't see anything until the news cycle begins again at 7am.

There's lots of dealing to be done tonight. Especially if the party have to have a unity cabinet.

Wallace being out of the country probably now rules him out as PM. Tbh under the circumstances thats probably not a bad thing.

FWIW I've kind of ignored the Anyone but the Tories stuff deliberately. I think I need to say something though.

NO PARTY having a total free reign in parliament in the UK works well for accountability. I wish people understood the importance and value of having a good Opposition with quality policies and quality people to hold to account.

This is where I am very worried. Whilst the Tories are a complete shit show, Labour don't have the values we need as a good opposition. How they handled Brexit really shows this up. Retrospective reassessment of Corbyn are disturbing given some of the stuff that he's done since which demonstrate unsuitability to rival some of the Tories.

Is Starmer now the hero we all seek to ride on a white horse and save us all?

No. And the reality is that many of the things that aren't popular but the Tories have pushed through won't change with Labour. Because reality. The energy price cap ending in april being a point in case.

This is where I'm actively frightened. We may get a lot of people get seats who frankly never should be let anywhere near parliament if there is Tory wipeout. For a multitude of reasons. And there will be no accountability.

Thats not moving us forward as a country. What we are missing isn't having the wrong ideology leading us. The problem is the lack of proper accountabilty.

Until you see it, we are fucked. And boy are we fucked.

I don't believe a change of government will be the magic bullet so many are begging for, for that reason...

IrisVersicolor · 19/10/2022 23:36

lightisnotwhite · 19/10/2022 23:23

Which is fine but you still don’t get into Oxbridge even if you have a good memory, word hard and be good at exams. It’s not the Marines where anyone who meets the standard gets in. They have to choose you for a limited number of spaces.

Maybe they are shit in government but I don’t think you can say they are thick.

It’s a lottery and they don’t always choose the most intelligent or the most interesting students.

How you define idiotic is up to you, but they are the living definition to me.

IrisVersicolor · 19/10/2022 23:45

Yes Truss will be up all night. It may be announced first thing tomorrow.

If it’s not tomorrow it will be this week. She may try to cling on but tonight is the end of her.

Although in principle I’d like an election and a Labour government asap - the best thing now would be to shoehorn another Tory leader in pdq to stabilise the government and the country first.

But the Tories are in such disarray that I’m not sure that that’s even possible. I think we may have to go into an election campaign before anyone is ready - leading to a period of uncertainty instability.

LexMitior · 19/10/2022 23:48

She is toast.

Braverman sacked because she would not loosen the immigration rules. So she had to go. Her letter is a nonsense, don't believe it. Shapps will loosen the immigration rules.

Even Boris Johnson was not stupid enough to give Mogg a real job. This fracking vote is all him, and there is more to come.

PerkingFaintly · 20/10/2022 00:20

NO PARTY having a total free reign in parliament in the UK works well for accountability. I wish people understood the importance and value of having a good Opposition with quality policies and quality people to hold to account.

Yes, I agree strongly.

One of the problems caused by this descent to the bottom of the barrel is that it lowers the bar all round. Jeremy Hunt and Grant Shapps look like an improvement in comparison with their predecessors. Shock Shapps in particular isn't fit to be anywhere near the cabinet – shouldn't really be in Parliament.

There's scope for this to be repeated across the country at a General Election, where as you say more people not suitable for office may be voted in on a tide of Can't Be As Bad As the Last Lot.

Turns out standards in public life really do matter, and the degradation presided over by the Greased Piglet may have long repercussions.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2022 00:37

John Harris AT johnharris1969
Question here is why it has all disintegrated. 2 answers: 1)the Tory party is now unleadable & collectively mad;2)out in the real world, there is nothing to show after 12 years besides decay & harm (Thatcherism had winners). And the centrality of Brexit to the story is now clear

I have to say this is the heart of the matter.

Its not that Brexit itself that the problem. It comes down the never ending argument about what Brexit was and for control over the post brexit plan though.

The referendum was set up to make Brexit something that only existed in someone's own individual mind. There was no collective idea of what it was that a consensus formed on. We had years under May that demonstrated this - every vote was split and unable to get a majority even with a free vote with no party lines. Johnson got a huge majority but even he struggled at times to get his party to come to consensus. Much of these problems were temporarily hidden by Covid but as weve come out of that, and economic problems have mounted thats unravelling. Thats what Truss inherited. A toxic shit show.

Every once in a while I reflect on this post I made 16/06/2016 13:41
www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2662474-To-wish-we-could-get-some-decent-advice-on-whether-to-vote-to-Brexit-or-Bremain?page=7

Much of it still holds up well. But take heed of the last part:

It boils down to this to me. You can't just overthrown the government - domestic or the EU - with two fingers up, unless you have a credible alternative waiting in the wings with a credible alternative to fill the void.

Where is that? Where is that really?

I just hear a loud echoing silence to that question

Could Sunak provide this? Could Hunt? Could anyone else?

There is no unity within the Conservative Party. They are still battling internally to impose their vision for the future on the UK. This won't stop even if they replace Truss. Too many factions with completely different templates for what to do next. I think I've seen that since 2016 the party has effectively persued 3 different plans. All have been doomed to fail. And there isn't many alternative plans left... And certainly not one you can easily get the party to gather around and support... Especially not now the economic storm has hit.

The public are looking for hope and opportunity when we, as a nation, keep building barriers to them at a time of a shrinking pool of resources and skills.

The row with Braverman today is fascinating. It was apparently about Truss wanting to liberalise immigration because she now feels thats one of the few ways to drive growth. Braverman was due to put in more immigration restrictions tomorrow.

Thatcher saw the EU as the only way to drive growth back in the 1980s. Little has changed. The Tories reversed from Thatcher's key policy, but didn't have a credibly, workable alternative to replace it. Certainly not one that they can agree on, at any rate. Thats why Truss has gone on so much about growth. Cos its about Thatcher's legacy and principle. Yet no one's really got the idea of where the growth comes from if we don't have closer ties with the EU. Geography is a bitch. Ukraine shows that.

Interestingly talk in the last day or so, Hunt's arrival has been framed as a 'remain coup'. Its more complex than that. We've had a party chasing fantasy and detatched from reality. Reality has reentered the room as a massive financial crisis and manifests as political instability. That only gets solved by someone able to identify problems accurately... and be able to convince the fantasists that its not about what you ideally want to do, but what you are limited to do within the confines of practicality. I've seen it tonight framed as becoming a battle between the realists and fantasists within the party... Again.

Does this latest crisis focus people on this reality? Hard to argue it does. Baker, head of the ERG, has been very vocal and very protective of Truss tonight... Mogg has also been one of the most prominent body guards to the PM tonight.

The Tories can not escape the concept of a singular idea of Brexit that never existing. Its the festering poison within the party. At the heart of Brexit was a political void which will continue to swallow and consume the party, until it 'let's go of the underlying principles of Brexit' as thats just an argument with no one able to command a singular concept of Brexit. They are doomed to forever try and define it in competition with their party colleagues.

Pay strong attention to what Labour policy for the Northern Ireland Protocol and relations with the EU going forward are. Note that they avoid the subject of Brexit, as if they can pretend it is done. Labour are keen not to be drawn on the subject. Ponder why. (Clue - look up). They need to take ownship of this question well. Instead we see repeated avoidance.

What are the UK's key problems right now? Whats driving those problems? Are we getting more or less competitive economically? Everything continuing to ignore the Brexit question or constantly trying to suggest 'Brexit at all costs' to match the demands (that never really existed) of the electorate should be challenged. No one ever did. Not pre-ref, not during May, not during Johnson, definitely not during Truss and it also doesn't appear in what Labour says...

Focus on this, not personalities and I say it a lot - political vacuums are very bad things.

No one is.

itsgettingweird · 20/10/2022 04:26

I've given up as I always get obviously templated replies.
I'd imagine that will be the case even more, now that he's Home Secretary...

I rarely even get replies.

Mines the recently ex Home Secretary.

She'll be sulking even more now!

EstellaRijnveld · 20/10/2022 04:48

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2022 23:16

Is she one of these people who was so shit that she was promoted to get them out of a particular department with the thought that she'd do less damage there?

So she was over promoted way above her ability and just got found out?

Got it in one as well as most of the senior managers I used to work with who were promoted above their skill set. Most for reasons such as incompetence, personal connections and bullying. People always promoted the bullies to get them out of the dept as it's easier than sacking. This is the reason why the whole country is shit atm. We being run by over promoted, privileged and talentless fuck wits.

MajorieEks · 20/10/2022 06:38

Robert Peston
Peston
It turns out the crazy day is not over. I’ve just had a text - after 1.30am - from Downing St saying tonight’s fracking vote was always a confidence vote, that Downing Street made a mistake in telling the minister at the despatch box it wasn’t, and that Tory MPs…

who deliberately abstained are in trouble (as Steve Baker said, on my prog tonight, they would be). This seems to be the price to prevent the chief and deputy chief whip from resigning. It all feels pretty panicked.

I should say this humiliating statement from Downing St seems to be the price to prevent the chief and deputy chief whips from undoing the un-resigning of their earlier angry resignations. Literally nuts.

Suella Braverman.  Is she always like that or is she unwell?
Mobiledesktop · 20/10/2022 07:31

I thought that what the media did to Corbyn was a disgrace, but that's what they do now. One manufactured outrage after the next. And the BBC and Guardian even piled in, because when it comes down to it they really don't have a shred of decency.
At the moment the Conservatives are trying to appease the broadcast media who are becoming increasingly influential whilst the papers are declining. I'd personally like to see a strong politician take these so called "Journalists" down a peg or two. They are just trying to fuel the 24 hour news cycle.
As for Labour, they will do a lot better than last time but it won't be a decisive victory unless they take large numbers of seats of the SNP.
And as for component government, the next Labour government will contain Angela Raynor and a whole host of other people who didn't get the job because they were even remotely the best person but because they were shortlisted due to their gender or ethnicity.
That party really has been hollowed out of competent people.

RedToothBrush · 20/10/2022 07:40

Lucy Fisher AT los_fisher
Govt is now treating last night's chaotic vote on fracking as a confidence issue, according to a 1.33am (!) update from Downing Street

Tory MPs who abstained can 'expect proportionate disciplinary action'. Usually that would mean whip stripped... but these aren't usual times

Adam Bienkov at adambienkov
Yesterday Downing Street said the fracking vote was a confidence vote. Later the Climate Minister said it wasn't.

In the middle of the night No 10 messaged journalists saying it in fact was in a confidence vote. Now the Transport Secretary tells Sky News that it wasn't .

Today starts off in much the same way as yesterday ended.

This only forces the issue more...

Those at the only two tweets I've looked at so far this morning.

I am moving over to the Will Liz Truss Resign today Part2 thread as that makes more sense at this point...

AlecTrevelyan006 · 20/10/2022 07:43

History shows that the electorate does not vote for divided parties. It’s very difficult to imagine anyone uniting the Tories now. The only question is how many seats they lose at the next election. With Liz as PM they’d maybe end up with 50 MPs. With someone else, maybe 100 or so. Either way, they're toast.

justasking111 · 20/10/2022 07:46

OH and DS aged 40 talking last night when he called round. He reckons because he and his generation don't remember the 70s, strikes, inflation, high interest rates is the reason the government are in such a mess and behaving like headless chickens.

We were banging on to our kids post Christmas to get logs, candles, etc. In because we saw the signs of the shit storm on the horizon.

Only the oldies in government had an inkling and they've been ignored

Tinner01 · 20/10/2022 08:35

@vera99 it gets worse and worse. Shameless

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 20/10/2022 08:39

And as for component government, the next Labour government will contain Angela Raynor and a whole host of other people who didn't get the job because they were even remotely the best person but because they were shortlisted due to their gender or ethnicity

Im in the Labour Party. Members voted for Angela Raynor to be in her position. Myself included.

TheGhostOfLiz · 20/10/2022 08:42

Component government?

I've never heard that term - does anyone know what it means?