MIL dropping hints about moving in.

[HappyDays40]

I have a lovely but very elderly MIL who at 94 lives independently and has friends who come and visit her that live on the street. We do shopping appointments etc and visits each week she is about 20 miles away. Sometimes when she isn't feeling too good she stays for a few days but is always glad to get back home as we have a noisy 6 year old who she loves but it can understandably get too much.
She told me today she is having the house valued so she can "move in with family ".......I think she means us considering there is nobody else:)
She is unsteady on her feet, can't do stairs but her house is adapted, she is familiar with it. Wherever she moves to would need some adaptations. When she does stay its very hard, we have a small dog who gets under her feet so is a falls risk, we have to move our work ( both full time) to make sure we are home to help her too the loo, get her drinks etc. She is no problem just sits in her chair , watches telly and drinks tea. But it isn't possible to work from home all the time our jobs involve some time out of the house!
Her friends pop over and wouldn't be able to do that if she were here.
We go away, do festivals and are not home much at weekends especially in the summer, she won't have carers or respite care.
I don't want her to move in permanently as it cannot possibly work logistically. She is welcome to stop over but it stops our routines an restricts us to the house. Not sure how we would manage to work, care for her full time and continue any quality of life for our son. Any suggestions how to address this without hurting her feelings are welcome.

My friend has been paying £500 a month service charge on her late mum's empty McCarthy and Stone retirement flat for a year so far. The friend I referred to earlier in this thread was paying the service charge for three years.

Not everyone has the disposable income to do that.

Thanks everyone for your posts. My husband came back from staying with her yesterday and he had a chat with her about the realities. At this moment in time she sees herself staying in our living room and using a commode for ethe toilet like she does when she stays over. My husband asked how she will wash and she said she will have a strip wash.

He asked her about the amount of support she would need and she said we'll one of us is always at home. She understandably doesn't see the carefully orchestrated annual leave, working from home to make this possible for a very small period of time.

He spoke to her about support and she is currently adamant that she would just sit in the living room while we are out. He explained hat our son couldn't be expected to not go anywhere, give up his clubs just because there is nobody available to take him but she feels that her living with us would help him to be more caring and supportive of people.

Not willing to consider additional support, wouldn't want to go into sheltered accomodation but said we could move in with her. I explained that our son has the support he needs at his school, he wouldn't copw with another school change. I haven't got the will to spend hours on a motorway for work ( been there and done that) and two adults and a child cannot share a bedroom meant for one person.

She is acting out of fear, clutching at straws for any possible solution and in the process digging her heals in. We are away next week, my mum and dad have kindly offered to step in and support her and also to try to chat through things.

My view is that although this is really hard, if we kindly keep repeating the same phrases and offering our support with moving or getting carers she will accept her options.

She is still so upset, continues to be very welcome in our home despite the fact she says she doesn't feel it.

She is scared and lonely but anything we suggest she bats away. We have GP appointment on Friday to talk to her about her low mood.

I really do know the ins and outs of social care. I'm an OT in local authority so I know our home is not adaptable. I think she would probably need to rent, while she has some money there is not a lot left we certainly couldn't afford service charges.

If anyone has any magical ideas of how to.make her feel the love we have for her....my ears are open.

That's a very high service charge, my mum is in a McCarthy & Stone retirement flat and her service charge is nothing like that

They vary by location. Their own website shows examples of service charges for one bed flats from £250 a month to £600.

In some areas there are sheltered flats that can be rented. My mum's friend is in one and my mum would like to move there too but you need social services to support the application and the opinion of mum's GP and SS is that a move would likely worsen her alzheimers so she can't. They are probably right and it's a shame she and dad were set against it a few years ago when his mobility deteriorated and the move would have worked.

Has she got elderly friends who are living in sheltered accommodation etc who could talk to her?

A family member (late 80s) moved into temporary respite care at the stage when she couldn't be alone and there was no one to be with her for 2 weeks. She loved it. She lived there for the next 2 plus years.
Before she had been adamant about not leaving home. There was every adaption in place you can buy to try and keep her there. In retrospect, we realised the responsibility and pressure she was putting herself under was making her even more unable than she was. She was much much happier when she let herself be looked after.

I think you just need the caring equivalent of grey rock. Keep calm, explain how the changes you make when she is there for a few days aren't possible for longer than than.

Do you know any of her friends? If so have any moved into supported housing?

I'd also suggest some reseach on what supported living is available where she lives and where you live. However, you need to remember at some point you will want to or have to move.

@HappyDays40

He asked her about the amount of support she would need and she said we'll one of us is always at home. She understandably doesn't see the carefully orchestrated annual leave, working from home to make this possible for a very small period of time.

^^^^*
And when your dh reminded her you both worked full time so , NO there isn't someone always around .....,,what did she say ?

DON’T do it! I had my father live with me for the last 3 and a half years of his life and it was horrible! One of the worst mistakes I ever made. Just tell her no, she will have to have carers or move into a residential home.

It sounds like that conversation went as well as it could have and you’ve pegged her state pretty well. I think deep down she knows that living with you is not going to work.

At this point I think you just need to take her to start looking at alternative accommodations, like local to her sheltered accommodations. Keep reinforcing that she can decide which would be better, home care or moving to the SA but your home is not an option.

The goal now is to back off a little and, not push one way or another and let her come to her own decisions. I would make the point to her that is the time for her to make her choices before something happens that forces a decision. But then drop it.

‘’this is the approach I took with my gram. She didn’t want to move but she knew she couldn’t stay where she was. It was hard for her, but she got there.

I suspect that you are already doing everything that can be done to make her feel loved. I've been in a similar position with a much loved elderly relative and I mean this with love, but due to fear and cognitive decline (even if they seem fine), elderly people can become selfish. I don't blame them! Your MIL is choosing (to whatever degree) to insist on only one option (living with you) and refusing to take your (well explained) no for an answer, then replying with the 'you don't love me' card.

It can be a bit like dealing with a child. I think you are absolutely right to keep offering love but while keeping strongly to your boundaries. There are options for her out there and she needs to accept that her preferred option is not feasible.

it's a horrid situation and I send my very best wishes to you, your MIL and your family .

In my experience, mum dad, MIL & aunt, resisted all proposals put to them, including any aids to help them in the home. They are petrified of change & can be very stubborn. In the end, I just used to gentle introduce changes to the home, without seeking their permission. Very soon, they loved their new chair, etc. It. would be far better if she could live in her own home under the umbrella of social services. You will find she will probably be more amenable towards them. You could also get them involved re assessing your house for suitability and then they will tell her it’s not in anyone’s best interest. You need to ask for outside help as this will become very stressful for you all.

Very sadly some people find it virtually impossible to accept carers into their homes despite being pretty reasonable in other ways.

Unfortunately you may have to tell her what her options are (carers or care home) and let her decide. Do not offer more help yourselves as it will enable her to delay. My FIL was the same. Eventually he had one fall too many, went into hospital and thence into a nursing home. The last four years of his life were lovely ( on the whole). He had nice surroundings, 24 hour care, quality visits from family and zero to worry about. He had to reach a very low point to accept this.

Best wishes, it’s horrible. Just keep reassuring her of your love and yes, getting her anxiety under control should help.

Very sadly some people find it virtually impossible to accept carers into their homes despite being pretty reasonable in other ways.

Considering how many mumsnetters won't even open their front doors to people, were shouldn't really be surprised at that.

It can be a bit like dealing with a child.

I know you mean the advice well, but please don't ever liken older people to children. The very worst part of going into a nursing home, for my very sharp of mind mum, was how often she was treated like a child.
I'm starting to see it happen to me and I'm only in my late 60s. We're not stupid and we can tell when we're being infantilised.
The rest of your paragraph: I think you are absolutely right to keep offering love but while keeping strongly to your boundaries is absolutely fine on its own, without you needing to tell the OP to see her MIL as a child

She can’t move in with u! I’m a health professional, it does not work.
Leaving her area where she has many friends would be a huge mistake.
How about a one bedroom flat in her area? With a cleaner plus some carers coming in regularly. It would take time for her to adapt, but u could still see her regularly. Good luck!

You are being kind! Having these difficult conversations and making clear what her options are, even though they're not the one she wants, is being kind. She can't understand (or can, but doesn't want to accept) why she can't move into your house - you're protecting her and your child from the consequences of her doing that.

My view is that although this is really hard, if we kindly keep repeating the same phrases and offering our support with moving or getting carers she will accept her options

You're almost certainly right, OP, and anyway there's clearly no alternative since accommodating her isn't going to work practically even if you'd wanted it to

You're also right that she's probably acting out of fear, but even so the suggestion that it's okay for DS to lose out because it would make him more "caring" is deeply unpleasant. While staying kind it's worth remembering that all your needs matter too, and don't just disappear to suit her own

As for convincing her you love her, you probably can't while she believes the narrative that you don't will be enough to get her way. Happily, though, when in time she's settled elsewhere, she may well come to realise you've acted for the best, and preecisely out of love for all the family - and if she doesn't at least you'll know you did everything you possibly could

Agree with not treating her like a child she has capacity to make her own choices and mistakes. People talk to older people like children and it drives me potty.
I'm sure she does know that we love her and I will never act against her wishes even if I don't feel she is making the best choices.
I canbgin to understand how vulnerable she is feeling. I hunk we just need a lot of talking and trying to make her see ht we want what'd best for her. Her quality of life in our living/ dining room would be quite frankly shit. Going to the toilet on a commode, no access to a shower and us all cranky coz we have nowhere to chill out and sit. I don't want that for any of us. I want keep our lovely relationship and to visit and support her. There are some sheltered accomodation places near her but none walking distance for the pals on her street sadly. They are all quite elderly and a bit frail
Quite happy for her to come up near us but she says she won't know anyone. She said she isn't a mixer....los of social anxieties and hates the idea of living closely to people she is unfamiliar with. I'll just have to give her space to think .

It sounds very likely that her local friends will be making similar choices soon. Perhaps suggest she speaks to them about what they have planned?

You could, if you have time, do a bit of research on suitable sheltered accommodation near her and near you. Check affordability, quality reviews, maybe visit anywhere that looks promising. No harm on putting her on waiting lists, you can say "not yet" if she is offered a space.
One thing that helped my mum, was leaving some brochures with her, so she could look quietly in her own time, as part of the process of coming to terms with her choices. If you find somewhere nice near you, then you could "sell" it to her with some enthusiasm for how you could visit more frequently than now, how you could bring her to your house for sunday lunch etc etc.

OP I know you don't want to think of her like this, but I think she knows what she is doing; she is extremely manipulative. Emotionally manipulative. And since it doesn't sound like your DH shut her down immediately, it seems from the dialogue he entertained her and her thoughts. If he were genuine she wouldn't have got as far as saying all that. He should have said it's not on, it's out of the question. The fact he allowed her and indulged her enough that she even said all those things says to me that you have a DH problem. He should have shut her down IMMEDIATELY and said it's not happening, then she wouldn't have had the opportunity to say all of those things. It seems to me she is very emotionally manipulative and your DH indulged her enough that she said all of that when he should have cut her off every time she said anything like that. Your MIL is as master manipulator and your husband is indulging her. You need to nip this in the bud and stop it right now. She is not innocent, she knows exactly what she is doing. And she will wear your DH down. Stop this right now, before it goes any further.

Your MIL is as master manipulator

No she isn't. She's a sad and scared may in her 90s. She's clearly been a lovely MIL, as OP loves her dearly. Had she been a matter manipulator she'd have shown it by now.

She's scared of being on her own at night. She knows she's not coping, and she's clinging to the idea that she can live with people she loves and trusts. She did it for her own mum, and she's not yet recognise that life has changed since then, and daughters and daughter in law are no longer able to be home to care for elderly relatives.

Yes she's being unreasonable, but I maintain that it's out of panic and fear. And I'm pry site that OP knows her better than you do @JennyNotFromTheBlock

Ffs. Typos everywhere

Sometimes outsiders can see things a lot clearer, @saraclara . It's clear to me from the "I'm scared to be alone!" thing, to the assumption that she can "move in with family", that she has had this planned for quite awhile. Being elderly doesn't mean you lose your wiles or ability to be manipulative. It's very what's going on here, and the OP seems too nice to see it.