MIL dropping hints about moving in.

[HappyDays40]

I have a lovely but very elderly MIL who at 94 lives independently and has friends who come and visit her that live on the street. We do shopping appointments etc and visits each week she is about 20 miles away. Sometimes when she isn't feeling too good she stays for a few days but is always glad to get back home as we have a noisy 6 year old who she loves but it can understandably get too much.
She told me today she is having the house valued so she can "move in with family ".......I think she means us considering there is nobody else:)
She is unsteady on her feet, can't do stairs but her house is adapted, she is familiar with it. Wherever she moves to would need some adaptations. When she does stay its very hard, we have a small dog who gets under her feet so is a falls risk, we have to move our work ( both full time) to make sure we are home to help her too the loo, get her drinks etc. She is no problem just sits in her chair , watches telly and drinks tea. But it isn't possible to work from home all the time our jobs involve some time out of the house!
Her friends pop over and wouldn't be able to do that if she were here.
We go away, do festivals and are not home much at weekends especially in the summer, she won't have carers or respite care.
I don't want her to move in permanently as it cannot possibly work logistically. She is welcome to stop over but it stops our routines an restricts us to the house. Not sure how we would manage to work, care for her full time and continue any quality of life for our son. Any suggestions how to address this without hurting her feelings are welcome.

Of course you love her, but you have a 6 yr old and your own family to think about too - times have changed - the last thing you want is everybody stressed. How about a Retirement Flat close-by, with a warden to drop in/call each day, flats are relatively cheap but there is a community fee - and a 'piper' system (a button she presses if she is in trouble at all and is linked to a company who can call you), - it worked amazingly with my lovely Dad, we had young children and work etc. but he was round the corner so we could see him - best thing we ever did!

I think you have to focus on her staying in her own home, which I'm sure you are doing - there isn't an alternative.

All these friends she has, how good a friend are they - would any of them stay overnight to keep her company - obviously not move in but a bit of companionship a couple of nights a week?

What involvement are her other grown up children having in all of this - she's their mum too but it seems your husband is expected to do their share too.

My aunt is 92 & just out of hospital after a fall, broken shoulder & three broken ribs. We set up a micro living area in her living room. Electric chair, electric bed, TV & commode. She has social services carers who go in four times a day, to help her get up, wash & get to the chair. They access her flat via an outside key lock. They make her breakfast & lunch and a wonderful neighbour cooks her an evening meal; the carer comes in to put her to bed. Maybe you could enquire regarding social carers, it’s not ideal but works for some.

How do you know she even means you? You need to clarify what she actually means before you say anything else.

What a horrible thing to say. OP sounds like a really caring person

The op said yesterday that her MIL had three children but one is dead and one in poor health, leaving only op's husband for their mother to lean on for support. She has three grandchildren but two are in Australia and one is her six year old.

If you click on "see all" in the bottom corner of one of the op's posts you can just read hers.

As your m-I-l has a second bedroom could a ‘home share’ be the answer? Not that I would like to share my home but if needs must …
Although sheltered housing could be one answer, if you buy it’s difficult to sell and you have to pay the high service charges until it is sold.

Apologies if I'm duplicating previous posts. I think amongst other things she needs to be encouraged to talk to her friends about what they plan to do, and what they think she should do. Has she got friends who also need to move in with family / go into a sheltered accommodation / enter a care home? If they visit regularly, where do they suggest she could go that they could still visit? They may offer a useful perspective.

It sounds like she needs a care needs assessment (? not sure of correct terminology), and, sadly, a bit more facing facts - sounds like she herself has reached a crunch point where she is being forced to recognise her current arrangements are no longer practical. Good luck moving forwards to a more workable solution.

You are not being unreasonable. We are the next generation up, my sons are in their 20’s. We have always been very involved with my in laws, our boys are only grandchildren, and they moved to be near our work several times so they could see/help out with/children. MIL now 92 and widow. We bought most recent house and renovated to give her nice bedroom and bathroom on ground floor, and we put in extra sitting room so no issues with tv etc. She has now moved in and it’s a disaster. She seemed to think that I would be helping her get dressed and wash, and fussing round after her. She is totally able to do all of these things herself and when she was living alone (in a property we own) we arranged for carers to go in and help her and she sacked all of them. Meal delivery service - rubbish she wouldn’t feed it to the cat. Shopping delivery hated it. Cleaners, none lasted. Had a social services assessment a few months ago prior to moving and offered zero help as she is not incapacitated. Just old and feeling like she should have help. We have tried so hard to help her settle in. Got her a couple of days in nice local day centre, she hates it. Says she stands out and doesn’t fit in. They say she joins in and has lovely time. Absolutely nothing we do is good enough. She constantly talks about money, and refuses to pay for the care she says she needs. She is well off compared to most - gets more in pensions that I earn as full time manager. Winds my hubby up constantly. I got home from work yesterday and it had all kicked off. Now she has announced she wants to go into a home and be looked after. I’m really sad as I have always got on really well with her, but she has just turned nasty. I think she needs a bad guy and has decided it’s me. So tomorrow she is going to look at a home. And mean as it feels we will be opening the champagne and dancing on the tables when she goes.

Can she afford other part time help? Like a carer to come in each day in the morning and at night. She might get used to that if it's phased in slowly.
Does she have a security system in place or a panic button she can wear.
She might get used to someone coming in like that. You can also get security cameras that you can see her in the kitchen and sitting room and talk to her through them.
Have you looked at those options?

Be careful about retirement flats they are really hard to sell on.

This is a really difficult situation for all - comes to us all as we get older and is particularly challenging with children, distance and work. I hope you can find a suitable solution for all.

My parents and in-laws moved into sheltered housing. they didn't buy the flats they rented. Their social lives actually improved as all sorts of activities happened in the communal rooms and days out were organised too. My FIL was determined he wasn't leaving his totally unsuitable two up two down but when he went to see the flats, he was more than a little surprised.
After they moved, he said he wished they had done it years before.
Perhaps enquire around the area and see what availability there is and suggest you take her just to have a look. If she did that, she would have money left over from the sale of her house to pay for additional care.

It took three years for my friend to get rid of her step mum's retirement flat. And for all that time my friend had to pay the place's full monthly service charge. Even though there was no-one using the services.
She finally got rid of it after selling it at a fraction of its value, when she ran out of savings to pay the service charge.

Have you had Adult Social Services out for an assessment of needs yet? Ask GP for OT assessment too. Also, does you MiL get Attendance Allowance? SS can advise on all care issues and fall alarm systems etc.

As others have said, you need to have an honest conversation.
There's nothing more likely to ruin a relationship with a parent than them moving in with you when it's not what you are prepared for.
I have relatives who moved their much loved aunt in & they ended up having a nervous breakdown.

Have you had Adult Social Services out for an assessment of needs yet?

It's a worthwhile suggestion but would need MIL to cooperate to have any real value, and if she's trying for the narrative of a senior lady who'd be "no trouble at all" that value may not happen - apart from which she'd probably interpret SS involvement as the first step to going into a home

Personally I'm with those who feel the real clarity needs to come from OP/DH, since MIL may need to realise the impossibility of living with them before anything more concrete can happen

My grandma was in sheltered housing until she died aged 94 and it was wonderful! She had her own flat, but there was also a communal dining room if she didn’t want to cook. They also basically left them alone as much as they wanted but there was a warden on call. They also organised loads of trips, events etc, her social life was a whirl. It was funny because at the same time that she moved in there, I moved into university halls and she started referring to her place as “halls” too and joking about how all they needed was a bar and it would be perfect. Anyway, she lived very happily there for about 6 years until she died.
I compare this to my in laws who are in their own home, fine at the moment but my FIL is very isolated especially as his brother and a close friend have recently died. My MIL is very sociable and walks into town but i think she would love a retirement village type place as she’d always have people to talk to.

That’s tough. I’m in the US and I think we have a good setup in some places. They have facilities (for lack of a better term) that has step care.

1. Independent Living -normal flat with a meal plan in their dining room (so residents can cook, do laundry, etc.)
2. Assisted Living - flat with less things like kitchens and such and more hands on help for things like nursing and care.
3. Skilled Nursing- this would be what most people think of when you think care home - more hospital like
4. Memory Care - for those that need a secure environment and specific dementia needs
5. Hospice - Can be serviced in any of the above living situations

We also have the ‘over 55 community’ places which offer no services but restrict the age of renters. I think these aren’t the easiest to get out money wise, because you buy into them and rent.

The step care places have an initial buy in amount (not cheap, but not totally out of reach) with a monthly rent. The benefit is that initial buy in + gov’t retirement benefits covers your care in the later stages.

it’s what my DH and I are probably going to go with since there won’t be any other option. But it does make sense. The places that I’ve seen are really good communities with a lot of options for socializing and activities.

You sound like a really sweet family, and this is going to be tough to deal with. I guess you and your DH will have to have a gentle talk with MIL, because you simply are not going to be able to handle it as her needs increase over time. Even if you weren't both working it would become too much, if it isn't a lot to ask (with dog and young child) already.

I tried living with my 96 yo father (I had to leave my husband to do that), and finally had to move my father into an assisted living facility (as they are called in the states) when he could no longer live by himself at home (his wife had died years before). Believe me, it wasn't easy, as he was stubborn and ruggedly independent, and I ended up moving him back to his home again and getting my brother's ex to care for him. That did not work out in a rather explosive matter, as she took him back to the rest home and dumped him. All his children lived far away (as far away from him as possible!) and he was never really happy in the rest home, but there really is no alternative when they become wheel-chair bound, confused or senile, and require help with cooking, bathing, etc. I was always afraid he would start a fire while cooking for himself, and when I lived with him, he refused to take a bath.

So, it is hard when people start to decline, and cannot do what they once were able to do.

I wish you much luck. Your MIL sounds like a sweetheart, and hopefully you can make an arrangement that will allow her to be near friends and family.

You can ask the local social services for a carer's assessment. This would be assessing your needs as your MIL's carers. Your MIL wouldn't need to co-operate for this.

If you haven't already apply for carer's allowance and mobility allowance - once these have been awarded, they can be used to help fund nursing home care.

Care of a frail elderly relative can be like watching a car crash in slow motion - you can see what's going to happen and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Sadly things only start to happen following a crisis point - it's no one fault - not your's, not MIL's, not social services or the GPs. Your MIL is scared and you've recognised this. The important thing is to be clear about what you can do to help - which if you are both working full time with a young child is very little

It very much sounds like you can’t physically accommodate her anyway but I grew up with multi-generational living and there is no way I would want this for my kid. We had granny flat on the house so in theory separate independent living for my DGM.

But she was entirely dependent on my parents to get anywhere and for any kind of social life which meant every ‘big’ meal we had included her, every day out, every Christmas. And that meant they weren’t child-friendly, everything had to be at the time she wanted, done quietly as she wanted because she couldn’t cope with noise, anything on TV what she wanted. We couldn’t go on holiday very far in case we had to get back for an emergency, and never for more than a few days. Days out didn’t really work as somewhere like an NT property, yes, she could sit in the cafe and drink coffee but she didn’t want to do that on her own, so one parent would stay with her, whilst the other went to the play area. If it was a weekday we just didn’t go to the play area (as only one parent available). And she wouldn’t want to stay out long so you’d never get a fun family day out.

There is no way I’d do this to my DD.

How lovely to read such a caring post, you must be to ask, usually on here its moaning about in laws.
It's time for a very frank talk, slowly gently kindly.
If she is saying this it is an ask for help, she has realised she's not managing as well as she should, remember this generation is very stoic and don't like asking.
Can you do some research into whether there's any independent living in either her existing area if after the talk she wishes to stay nearer her friends or your area, where they have a kind of bed sit with lounge tv kitchenette with toaster kettle, ring hob, they have pull chords if they need help, shower room.
There's a joint lounge area/dining area if they want to eat a full cooked meal, they really are excellent i worked in one many years ago, they telephone them every morning to see if ok.
Wonderful social life if want it, singalongs, trips out, all have to be paid for but
not expensive.
At her age the feeling you did everything you could for her in her later years is such a comfort.

girlfriend44 · Yesterday 20:03
Be careful about retirement flats they are really hard to sell on.“

That shouldn’t be the family’s concern. The comfort of their elderly relative while they are alive should be.

It's not as simple as that. It's not just that the flats are difficult to sell on (they are and it can take months or years) but they come with high service charges which have to be paid by the family whilst the flat doesn't sell.

The service charge rates tend to be much much higher than in a normal block of flats as they cover gardening, communal areas, access to warden/carers etc.

So, not just a case of the elderly person having a nice place to live, but then saddling their family members with a financial burden costing £100s every month for a long period of time.