To not let my 8 year old son go to the bathroom alone?

[TiredTravelMug]

Hi all,

I'm a single mum to a darling 8 year old boy. It's just me and him and always has been. Lately though, whenever we go out shopping or to eat etc, if he needs the bathroom, I'll insist on taking him into the ladies. I've been told I worry too much (very true!) And I trust my boy not to misbehave or talk to strangers, but there's still that part of my brain that says "better safe than sorry".

The problem is, my boy is almost 9 and is getting really embarrassed about having to use the ladies in public. He asks everytime if he can use the mens room and as much as I want him to be independent and things like that, my need to protect him from any possible harm overwhelms me and I say no.

So, am I being unreasonable, or taking extra steps to keep him safe? He is still a very young child at the end of the day, and as much as I ask him to use the bathroom before we leave the house, sometimes nature calls!

Thank you!

Statistically 1 to 3% of men have an interest in children (which is obviously way too high in any civilised society), but let's half that figure again for those jnterested just in boys, and then reduce that figure further, for the percentage of those men who are actually in the toilet, that's a pretty low risk, one that I'm willing to, and have taken.

Also, if a boy is entitled to use the disabled toilets why is your daughter not??

interestingly the only child of mine who has ever had any kind of incident concerning a public toilet was a female

No quote chain, but did the poster mean a boy with a disability such as autism or a LD that meant he could not use the men's at an age where he was getting too old for the women's?

I cant see if the poster quoted someone either. If they meant a child with a disability then fair enough.

Just stand outside the men’s toilets and wait for him - if concerned he can always shout out to you, or you to him.

You know your child is too old to go into the ladies’ toilets with you every time when he starts telling you he finds it embarrassing. If he has started to find it embarrassing, he is almost certainly self-aware enough to know what is and is not appropriate behaviour from other adults in a toilet, so you would be phenomenally unlucky for him to encounter someone who could do something dreadful to him in the toilet in the short time he was in there, in broad daylight when anybody else could wander into the toilet and catch them at it at any moment, and without the parent standing right outside knowing anything about it.

How comfortable do you think she would be with a classmate in the toilets with her. It's not just about your son but how girls could feel having him in their.

It'll be the normal in 10 years at this point.

DD school has put in gender neutral bathroom stalls, all single sex bathrooms are gone.

They're private stalls with a hand basin.

I'd say 20% of the students are trans and another 10% of students identify as gender neutral in her secondary school.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus

Why do you think OP child is entitled to use the disabled toilets?

Statistically 1 to 3% of men have an interest in children (which is obviously way too high in any civilised society), but let'.
I thought it would be much higher. Are you sure that the percentage is that low? I'd be very surprised.
Maybe that is the percentage who have been caught.

Oh goody. Hating men has not gone far enough so you've extended it to little boys.

oh god don't be so pathetic. Nobody is hating little boys (and i don't hate men either, get a grip)

I said my summary of the thread is:
mums of boys: i'll do what i want and everyone can fuck the fuck off and suck it up (literally said in the last 5 pages)

it isn't about hating anyone. But we can see where some men's entitlement to use women's spaces starts. I agree with pp that a) the risk is very small and you can mitigate it by being around and shouting in to them or b) for all toilets to be unisex, floor to ceiling self contained units. (cameras are a worry)

Also all this "oh noes i can't go in a men's toilet you can see their penis at the urinal" - no, you generally can't. I have used the men's toilets often (sometimes there were only men's toilets in some places i have been working).

I can imagine that there is a worry when your DSs get old enough to feel uncomfortable using the ladies. But it is one of the steps in their development and growing up process. And it is possible that there are unspoken Rules Of Men's Toilets (or whatever) that they need to know about (probably things like, when at the urinal don't make eye contact with people, or look over at someone elses urinal, don't cross the streams...) so they need a trusted male [relative] to teach them.

So: what do we do? Ignore women's concerns as some posters seem to want because "suck it up" or find a way for people to be comfortable?

Yes, this. DS was already asking to use the men's when he started at 6. He was the youngest in a mixed age class in year 2 so would have been embarrassed to run into a female classmate.

I'd definitely say that if your son is saying he's embarrassed, then he's too old.
Disregarding restaurants etc, there's two public toilets in my area, the one in the shopping mall has signs in the ladies saying that boys up to the age of 7 are allowed in accompanied by a guardian. My partner is saying there is also similar signage up in the gents.

It’s even lower as they’d need to be then interested in 9 year old boys, age range can be specific to paedos. But in a public toilet with mum outside and other non paedo men in there the risk will be very limited,to non existent.

what is a risk is this boy is being unable to grow up and gain independence and that another child he knows will see him in the ladies. Kids talk and that’s the sort of shit they get bullied over.

the op needs help for her anxiety , because that’s what it is and to be able to assess risk and put measures in place that are appropriate, not overly harsh.

it’s not ok for a boy who is nearly nine to be unable to go to the toilet alone and need to go to the ladies with his mother. That’s the bigger issue. It’s not ok for him to have to keep asking and his mother to over rule him and use control to get him in the ladies. It’s not ok for his mother to likely instill fear in him, none of it is ok. For their sake we need to teach our children about personal safety and we need to teach them independence. Otherwise this lad will reach adult hood and be terrified of the world.

Why did you think it would be higher? Do you think most men are paedophiles??

the op needs help for her anxiety , because that’s what it is and to be able to assess risk and put measures in place that are appropriate, not overly harsh.

I also think, iIRC, that statistically children are more likely to be abused by someone they already know? so emphasising "stranger danger" while not also generally teaching "no means no" and what is appropriate and what is not, is risky at best. (not saying that people aren't also teaching this)

But also agree with pp that this is about OP's anxiety and not her son (who keeps asking not to have to use the ladies)

Maybe that is actual paedophiles, as in interested in prepubescent children under 13. There are different terms for those interested in adolescents.

Just go into the mens with him. If any men complain say you identify as a man. Works the other way around. Hold your nose though the mens stink.

Would you let your 10 year old daughter do alone into the men's toilets at Kings Cross station? No so why would you let your 10 year old son? Same risk. When I'm out with my son ill decide on whether he goes to the gents alone based on my perceived risk to him from dodgy strangers. Restaurant toilet, no issue ill just wait outside, but massive toilet in a service station, he's coming with me and his sister to the ladies where we will all do our business in a locked cubicle. Not a naked girl or genital in sight. Those who only have girls do not get it.

Would you let your 10 year old daughter do alone into the men's toilets at Kings Cross station? No so why would you let your 10 year old son? Same risk.

that isn't remotely a similar thing. there is some utterly batshit posting going on here.

Look, i get it, you are all worried about your sons. So start by tackling the real issue which is you are worried about your sons going to men's toilets and leave the women and girls out of it. I haven't seen a single poster say that young boys shouldn't go in the ladies. 10 year olds? i have more than one experience of them behaving badly in women's toilets (not to mention a gym changing room which isn't the topic)

Batshit comparisons like this don't help anyone and make you look a little unhinged, IMO.

Those who only have girls do not get it.

This comment is so far from reality.

but am i the only one seening the underlying theme here: girls? who cares what they want?

I'm unhinged am I? Batshit? Have you swallowed the mumsnet dictionary of shit insults? I'm neither by the way I'm just a normal mum who acts on a case by case basis when it comes to deciding what is safe for my own children.

I'm struggling with this too. I let him go to the men's in certain places. Usually pubs, cafes, and restaurants we go to regularly and are quiet. Or if I can stand close to them and be able to speak to him. Otherwise I take him into the ladies.
I remember a story in the news not long ago where a boy of about 7 or 8 was raped in the men's toilets in a shopping centre and that made me even more worried. I know it's a rare occurrence, but I don't want to take the chance.
However, my other son is disabled, so we often go into the disabled cubicle altogether anyway.

you are comparing sending a boy to a toilet designed for men and boys to us sending our daughters into a toilet designed for men and boys.
Sounds batshit to me.

I have repeatedly said that i understand that it's an issue - but nobody is going to take this seriously if you make stupid comparisons like that.
The real issue here is that people feel men's toilets are unsafe. So why not focus on that instead of dinging on women and girls?

Threads like this depress me. All this talk about how women and children should change their behaviour and/or mindset. How places should be changed to make toilets safer. How people just need to accept the risks etc. Hardly ever a suggestion that men should change their behaviour. Everything else has to adapt because we just accept that they won't/can't change.