MIL is being a bit selfish

[cherrytreelanecherries]

My father in law died suddenly a year ago. He was only mid sixties so it was quite a shock.

My mother in law has struggled, understandably. She had only recently retired, has no other family apart from my DH, only has three close friends. She also lives rurally and doesn’t drive (FIL did all the driving). She is very lonely and quite depressed I think, we’ve started to have tentative conversations about her trying volunteering, going to a bereavement group etc but she just says it’s too soon.

We used to host Christmas for both sides of the family every year. We live several hours drive from both families (in opposite directions - helpful!) But my grandma is 96 and she’s too unwell to make the journey to our house this year. So that nobody has to be on their own, we came up with a plan that my grandma would spend Christmas Day at my parent’s house and we would go to MIL with our two young kids.

However, MIL doesn’t want to do this. She says she will find it too painful to decorate the house or have Christmas dinner (we’ve offered to cook) and she just wants to be on her own all day if she can’t come to ours. My parents have said she can stay at theirs and they will host but she’s refused that too.

I’ve offered that we rent a holiday cottage instead so Christmas Day doesn’t actually have to be in her house with all the memories but she won’t do that either.

My grandma feels so bad that she’s causing my MIL to spend Christmas alone that she is now saying we should go back to plan A and have Christmas at our house, even though she’s really not well enough to make the journey and I’m worried about her.

Basically, I’ve tried to be patient with MIL and I know she is devastated but I think on this she’s being a bit selfish. AIBU.

She did work and actually really enjoyed it, she retired less than a year before FIL died and the timing is so unfortunate. I think she may have postponed her retirement if he’d died earlier and carried on working for longer, and the structure would have really helped her to get through this period.

Her friends are actually quite busy people who have active networks, but their situations are all quite different. One has children still in their teens, one is quite religious and very involved in the church (plus looks after her grandchildren twice a week) and the other is still working.

I haven’t yet worked out if MIL is entirely honest with them and perhaps gives the impression that she’s coping well. I have a feeling she is only being completely honest with DH but I don’t know for sure.

I think her wishes in the first year of widowhood should be prioritised over your family's rather odd desire to come to yours if she comes too. Why can you not just say no to your parents?

I haven’t yet worked out if MIL is entirely honest with them and perhaps gives the impression that she’s coping well. I have a feeling she is only being completely honest with DH but I don’t know for sure.

It sounds like your DH is carrying an awful lot of weight here, at a time when he’ll also be grieving.

MIL’s turned down counselling, but would DH consider it? It might be a way for him to think through the combined impact of his own grief + how best to help his Mum without getting absolutely ground under by feeling like he has to carry everything for her, and feeling like he’d be mean if he pushed back on any of it.

This is such an interesting post and has really made me reflect!

I guess there are a couple of things here which make me think “yes, but…” I’m not trying to make excuses, just seeing things from different angles I guess.

The first is that MIL has no family apart from DH. He is an only child and so is she, her parents died a long time ago and she is not in touch with any of her cousins. So there will never be any other family members who can invite her for Xmas, DH is the only option. So she can spend time with us on her own (which is definitely her preferred option) but this can’t become the norm for every Xmas and birthday. I guess I’d worry about setting an expectation we can’t meet in future, and nobody else can step in to fill the gap. But maybe I’m worrying unnecessarily.

The second is that on the the odd occasion she has come to family events, she has actually enjoyed it! A few years back she and FIL came to a party hosted by my side of the family. DH and I were completely in shock when they accepted the invitation and a bit worried about how it would go but it was great. They spent ages chatting to people and said how much they enjoyed it afterwards. Everyone loved them and I said to my friend afterwards that they’re actually really shy and don’t have many friends and she actually laughed as she thought I was joking!

There is no doubt she is a natural introvert and lacks confidence with big groups but she does seem to benefit from social contact from what I’ve seen. But I guess it’s her choice and not my decision what’s best for her, plus it’s obviously different at the moment in the context of the bereavement.

Anyway, just musings really and not completely relevant to the thread but just interesting as it sounds like a similar personality type / dynamic.

OP you are being very very kind to your MIL in my opinion. She's only 60s and it's been a year already. Maybe she is depressed and has anxiety but only she can fix this.

See your grandma, I can;t believe anyone is honestly saying see 60 year old MIL over 96 year old grandma, that is nuts. See MIL a few days before or after and repeat her invite. You can't make her happy, only she can do that.

Maybe have a look on the 'elderly parents' board. You need some plans, and some boundaries, fast.

It is quite pathetic that she's too scared to get the train, even if you go with her. In that case she really does need some medication.

That does not mean that your suggestion of trying to force someone into counselling is ever an option.

To the person who said it's not complicated grief if someone has died only a year ago - have you actually read about complicated grief? It tells you that if you still find life hard & can't move on after the death of your loved one at least one year or more after the death, then contact your GP.

Its unbelievably difficult when you have a grieving parent and another family who you want to prioritise. Its so hard to get the balance right and keep everyone happy. If there was a way to get everyone together I would opt for that. Three years ago I hosted Christmas for my parents and my grandfather. Three months later both my grandfather and my mother had passed away. My dad was and is devastated and much like your mother in law now has to adapt and live a life he doesn't want and that simply isn't easy. We can give all the options we like but the one he wants doesn't exist anymore.

@ZeroFuchsGiven

I entirely agree with your username 😂

have you actually read about complicated grief?

No, I have lived with complicated grief. It involves a bit more than simply grieving over a year after a death.

This is it isn't it, what MIL wants doesn't exist. Why should OP turn herself in knots when it appears that MIL isn't thinking much about the rest of her family.....

it's not easy, but MIL getting her way means that OP, grandma and her family don't.

Any what happens next year?! MIL won't have got better

Thats not true at all. If OP goes to MIL, her family stay at theirs. MIL wants to go to OP, and her family can stay at theirs. No difference at all to OP's family. None.

MIL is not the selfish one here

what about OP's grandma?

MIL is the selfish one. It might be complicated grief, it might not be her fault she can't comprise, but she is the selfish one.

It's been a year, perhaps if MIL was going to be able to do more things then she would be already, so if she's not then OP can't re-arrange her life to suit MIL for errrrr the next 30 years.

I get it, it's all about preferences, MIL has one preference: only wants to come to your house and have Christmas, none of the other options offered suit her. Your preference this year is not to host a Christmas day at your home knowing your family are inadvertently excluded due to your grandmas illness (I get how this would feel) and you worry that your family might still feel slightly obligated to come to or a bit put out or just disappointed in some way that you are having a Christmas day that they cannot (easily) attend. So you prefer not to do that option, You are allowed to have that preference!!!! you have graciously offered some alternatives to your MIL. I think your abiding preference or easy option would be to go to your family and spend what might be one of your last (sorry for bluntness) with your Grandma. Absolutely nothing wrong with wanting that. It's generous to have sought alternatives for MIL, I'd be with Grandma. I understand MILs position, grief and depresion are incredibly tough but ultimately it would suit you and your family to be at your Mum's yet you've shown a lot of willing to compromise on that but not to the extend beyond your comfort zone (hosting at yours without your family) , MIL hasn't shown any compromise, maybe because of her grief which is tough, but you are not being selfish, you just have some boundaries. If you were selfish going to your mum's or having MIL at yours would be easy options but for you those involve hurting someone.

@Jenpeg has it. I feel sorry for your mil but ultimately she's going to continue to feel shit or she isn't. I actually don't think where she spends Xmas is going to change that. You and your family are allowed a nice Xmas and you are not actually excluding her, which would be mean.

This thread has exploded since I was reading it, so not sure if all my points are made already. I wasn't sure which way I was leaning but now I'm thinking

1. grandma is frail, your family and depends what could be her last Christmas with you. I don't see why you should give that up or make her travel 2 hours to yours for Christmas (especially if they travel there and back on the same day)

2. someone pointed out that you invited yourself to MIL's which I agreed was rude. But MIL is doing exactly that and inviting herself to yours or going to be a martyr and sit at home alone (and make sure you know how upset she is) unless she can come to yours - therefore not just trying to invite herself but trying to force it upon you!

3. your parents have nicely invited your MIL for Christmas. Seems like the obvious choice, you get to be with your gran and MIL can have a Christmas not in her house.

I vote go to your parents. Tell MIL your parents need to know by the end of October as they're ordering the food and then let her give you an answer by the deadline.

She's being unnecessarily awkward by basically demanding your frail grandma not see you at Christmas or travel, when she's the one whose comfort matters the most this year (your MIL had last year when she was newly widowed)

Cannot possibly know how bad things are for MIL and what might help, the OP is trying, we can't say if she's enabling or making it worse. I'd want to try to help her too and I wouldn't easily do something I know wouldn't suit her but I also wouldn't want to do something that I don't feel comfortable with for myself and my family. It's not an easy situation and I feel like the OP is considering the feelings of everyone around her and might just have to refocus on herself and what she wants as there is no easy answer

I’m a similar age to your MIL (it’s not that old!), and it’s about time she grew up and learnt to live independently forging her own life and friendships and stop playing the ‘poor old me’ card. She sounds just like my annoying Aunty who lived to a ripe old age and drove everyone potty trying to accommodate her wishes.

I hope you're never in the position of losing your life partner. In my case (I've posted on this thread earlier, he died suddenly just before Christmas last year) DP and I had been together for a few weeks shy of 45 years. If I haven't given myself a whole new life and become the life and soul of the party in a year (or 'grew up' in your words) I'm annoying??

I do things. I travel on trains, I've been on holiday. Doesn't mean I wouldn't rather be at home with DP and I do sometimes just hide myself at home. Because no amount of company, activities and friends/family can ever compensate for him not being here, nice as they are. I don't demand things of others because I know their lives don't revolve around mine. But no two people ever grieve in exactly the same way.

PS The bit about going to the doctor if you haven't moved on in a year refers to not being able to get out of bed, treating the person's room and/or belongings as shrines, crying almost non-stop. It doesn't mean you go if you're still missing the person and haven't completely come to terms with your new life.

You don't have to tell me what is involved with complicated grief.

It's a shame really because I think mil might enjoy herself if you were all to have a family Christmas together at your parents, where she'll be with the children and grandma. Whether she agrees to it ofcourse is another issue.

Hmm I can kind of see where you're coming from actually.

If your parents can't come to you because of elderly gran then you hosting mil at your place will mean you won't see your parents at Christmas for the next few years, basically until elderly gran dies (sorry to be blunt but that seems to be the gist of it) - in which case at some point I probably would take mil up on her offer to be alone - not this year but if you are in the same circumstances next year (which will be her third christmas without her husband rather than being newly bereaved) and she's been offered the option to come to your parents with you and refused - otherwise to insist you and dh have to choose her over your parents every single year because she won't accept any suggestion than coming to yours is a bit selfish.

This is a tough one. It's only one year since she lost her husband. She was clearly exceptionally reliant on him i.e. won't drive or go on the train, few friends. It's not surprising she's struggling so much as she is lacking the skills to do pretty basic things without him, plus the obvious impact of the grief itself. A stark reminder to retain some independence from your OH when the worst happens! I think given the timescale I would go with what she wants this year but make sure you see Grandma and your parents on boxing Day, without MIL and DH if necessary, that should be a non negotiable given your Grandma's age.
I understand your concerns about not setting an expectation that she will get this her way every year, and if she won't compromise next year she has to stay at home alone , but for now it's still pretty raw. She needs to work on some independence skills in time , but obviously this will not be a quick fix after a lifetime of relying on FIL.

I am glad my somewhat challenging life experiences are helping you op. My fil was actually a similar age to your mil when his wife died. He’s always been what I would call old for his age and now in his 80s, he’s finally caught up I think. He isn’t confident in situations out of his comfort zone, which is similar to your mil.

I think the difference between your mil and my fil is that he is content to be alone and not bored. He found his little routine and certain things to do. His garden and he took up cycling. After a few years, he decided he’d like a dog, which has now died and been replaced by the cat across the road, who the neighbours were happy for him to adopt when they moved away. Dh also used to go over when we lived closer and help out to keep him going and we visited very regularly. I think this may be a way forward for your mil to encourage her out of this rut, such as going out in the car and her driving for a little distance or going together to one of these meetings you suggested.

I do think you should let the GP know. My fil is good at looking after his physical and mental health. But he already had practice at this and took himself to the doctor when needed. There are other areas he is less well at, such as keeping his house in repair. I pushed him hard to look after his physical comfort as he was highly resistant and as things wore out, I organised things like a functioning kitchen, a shower as he had none, furnishing eg sofas, a mattress, bedlinen and so forth. He wanted to keep the broken, patched up kitchen tap broke and keep filling a bucket to flush his only loo!

I think it’s easier as part of a couple to compliment one another and plug the gaps. If my fil were depressed, unhappy or refusing to look after his health, I would be stepping in. I get your mil is highly resistant and things need to be chipped away at. Believe me, you don’t get more resistant than my fil!

@cherrytreelanecherries When someone says they want to be left alone, leave them alone. Obviously if someone doesn't wash for days or has rotting food in their fridge you might try to stage an intervention. But it doesn't sound like MIL is like that.

It's profoundly selfish for someone to say they want someone to do what they want because otherwise it is upsetting their plans or making their granny or husband feel bad, or their MIL has been a moany old cow who should just do things she doesn't particularly want to do because she's been given a list and should really buck her ideas up.

It is mid October. A lot of things can happen to change family circumstances between now and Christmas. It's happened to me more than once. Old people die at this time of year - my parents and various older family members and in-laws did. That's not being horrible it's just a fact of life and I thought you were a fan of giving it to people straight. So go on with your plans and leave MIL to a chicken crown for one on Christmas day and phone her if you want to.