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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Ukrainian families may just have to..

329 replies

FindingMyself1999 · 13/10/2022 22:15

Go back? bbc article

such a sad situation but we barely have enough housing or school places as it is. Unless the hosts can act as guarantors? That’s a possibility ?

the government really hasn’t thought through the aftermath of the hosting scheme.

OP posts:
Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:15

From my job, I've seen the Council prioritise school places and houses. I've seen families that were not even living in Ukraine come over. I've seen them not willing to work because they want the same job as back home with no language skills. And because they got all this help at first, they come to expect it.

Whereas I know other refugees who are sleeping on the street, not having their kids in school for 6 months or more, and who are living on universal credit and unable to get a job. They rarely have English friends to advocate for them.

It absolutely SICKENS me at the inequality. A refugee is a refugee.

And that one who talked about males with branded trainers....they live on £40 a week and are not allowed to work. You literally have no idea what you're talking about

Anon778833 · 14/10/2022 08:17

From my job, I've seen the Council prioritise school places and houses.

What is your job? Councils allocate school places on catchment proximity and that changes every year.

BuildersTeaMaker · 14/10/2022 08:19

BewareTheLibrarians · 13/10/2022 23:26

There’s always a poster who knows loads of Ukrainians who “weren’t even living in Ukraine” but have got on the sponsorship scheme, yet the Home Office’s own eligibility criteria states you need proof of living in Ukraine before January 2022. Unless they’re accusing our govt of being hideously incompetent?

I think your comment of “unless they’re accusing our government of being hideously incompetent” is NOT helping your argument (which I don’t disagree with)🤦‍♀️
the government has proven over and over to be hideously incompetent (PPE, furlough fraud etc etc). Along with corrupt, entitled, out of touch with reality etc etc
🤣

goodnightsugarpop · 14/10/2022 08:19

It's a horrendous situation but it should have been obvious to anyone with half a brain that this would happen. The government had no long term plan and there's a housing crisis. I thought very seriously about hosting (even though my flat isn't really big enough) as I very much wanted to help but I realised I wasn't willing to do it indefinitely and also couldn't imagine a situation where I could force someone out of my home when they had nowhere else to go.

Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:21

@MondaysChild7 It's too outing to tell you, but I support all refugees and asylum seekers in my area.

Anon778833 · 14/10/2022 08:25

Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:21

@MondaysChild7 It's too outing to tell you, but I support all refugees and asylum seekers in my area.

It annoys me when people don’t know all of the facts of a situation then decide that refugees must have been prioritised for a school place because they are refugees. People will go down the list of spaces when someone moves into the catchment.

Anon778833 · 14/10/2022 08:26

Down the waiting list I mean.

You can’t just send people back to a war torn country. And it won’t happen. Rightly so.

FivePotatoesHigh · 14/10/2022 08:27

hadtochangetothisone · 14/10/2022 07:04

Can hosts on here say why they want their arrangement to end. The BBC article doesn't really explain why.

In the first case it is obviously a very small space they are sharing and alludes to a 'bereavement' .. whilst the second, where space is not the issue doesn't really explain why at all.

I am just wondering if it is anything to do with the payment and the daft situation where a host is paid £350 regardless of how many people they are hosting.

I host a Ukrainian woman. She is a delight. We have a very small home and therefore not too expensive to heat, however with the aid of my smart meter I have worked out that having her here wfh, whilst I work in my office, costs almost an additional £200 a month in Electricity and heating oil alone. When the host payment is £350 perhaps it simply isn't enough. It's one thing to open your home up to a guest in need. If the costs are covered (such as my case) However the CoL crisis has meant now it actually COSTS hosts if they are hosting more than one person.

I would suggest increasing host payments to those who have hosted more than one guest for 6 months or more (to avoid opportunists) .

A lot cheaper than temp emergency housing.

Not sure how one person WFH costs an extra £200 - might you be exaggerating?

C8H10N4O2 · 14/10/2022 08:27

Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:21

@MondaysChild7 It's too outing to tell you, but I support all refugees and asylum seekers in my area.

Refugees, by virtue of being homeless families in temporary accommodation will generally fall into a priority category because they are homeless and in temporary accommodation.

This is a perennial cry in my area which has a high number of refugees but when you look at actual cases they are following standard priority models for homeless families and children of homeless families.

christmas2022 · 14/10/2022 08:28

What have the government said about when the 6 months expires- will they extend the offer?

KatieB55 · 14/10/2022 08:30

Our council are offering landlords guaranteed tenancies with rent paid direct to them and £1000, all managed by council with guaranteed repairs etc for Ukrainian families.
Landlords are going to be better off taking up this offer surely? Local families already struggle to find housing and there are 1000s on the waiting list.

LuluBlakey1 · 14/10/2022 08:33

What did you expect to happen?

  1. Putin would give up and go back to Russia. Ukraine would rebuild and they'd all go home by next summer and you'd write nice emails reminiscing about the times you had and visit each other for holidays for the next 50 years???
  2. The British government (who would prefer all health, education, social care, housing to be private and the state to have no responsibility for any of it because it's a bottomless pit and would then cost the wealthy nothing in taxes) would step up and say 'Oh we'll build a programme of good quality, much-needed, social housing across the country, extra schools and fund the NHS properly. It'll cost you in higher taxes but don't worry about it.' ???
  3. The British government would bounce responsibility to individual sponsors, farm refugees out to disgracefully shabby, over-crowded private hotel chains run by their Tory mates, leave the NHS to fall apart so they can privatise it as a policy rather than doing it by stealth, allow even more building of poor quality, cheap flats that private landlords buy up and rent out at hugely inflated rents and make lots of money from???
  4. The British government would send them home and risk international disgrace, condemnation and revolts on the streets by left-wing groups???

3 was always going to be the outcome. Refugees have never mattered to this Tory government other than as a problem to be got rid of. They are vulnerable, require support, consume resources, cost money are not British and the Tories hate any of that.

Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:33

@MondaysChild7 I KNOW Ukrainian children who have been given spaces over others. Im not talking about something I've heard from someone else. If your council are treating it how it should, good for you.

lollipoprainbow · 14/10/2022 08:34

@KatieB55 brilliant no wonder I can't find anywhere to rent then.

vera99 · 14/10/2022 08:34

134,200 Ukrainian refugees have arrived in the UK – now what?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/11/council-said-had-make-homeless-what-next-ukrainian-refugees/

Six months ago, people began arriving in the UK from the war-torn country – but now the minimum hosting stay has ended...
By Eleanor Steafel 11 October 2022 • 6:00am

Six months ago, when Putin’s war on Ukraine began, our screens were filled with pictures of women and children fleeing their country (some four million by the end of March) and for many Brits, those images of families saying goodbye through train windows were the catalyst to doing something.

Within days, over 150,000 had signed up to become hosts, offering up their spare rooms, their summer houses, their annexes. Some put themselves down for a year, others indefinitely; many signed up for six months, the minimum the Government was asking for, not knowing then how long the war would last or what it would really be like to host a family who had been through so much.
Since then, despite the many teething problems and bureaucratic hurdles, 134,200 Ukrainians have arrived in the UK under the Family Visa Scheme and Homes For Ukraine. Meanwhile, the war rages on; for the people who fled Ukraine, the latest scenes from Kyiv must be devastating. For the people who took them in, the realisation has begun to dawn that very little has been put in place for what comes next.
Karen and Mark* began hosting a young woman and her two-year-old in April at their home in the west country. Their children having fled the nest, they had bedrooms to spare and felt compelled to help. “I think I went into this quite naively,” says Karen. “But, like a lot of people in those early days, you just think you’ve got to do something.”
They have loved having Yulia*, but Karen admits it has involved far more work than anticipated. She has been a kind of liaison officer, sorting out all Yulia’s paperwork, taking her to the job centre to apply for universal credit, securing her biometric permit for residency, registering her at the GP, ensuring the little one is up to date with her jabs, and regularly driving them from their remote village into town so Yulia can meet up with Ukrainian friends.
It’s the paperwork that has been ‘a nightmare’, she says. “I had to write to my MP I don’t know how many times.”

Karen has been struck by how much it has been like having one of her children at home again. “They rely totally on you. It’s sort of like having a big teenager again. The lifts and the emotional needs. But that was all part of what I was happy to do.”
But after six months, Karen and Mark need their home back. It didn’t take long to realise there was limited support in place. “The council have said to me ‘You’ve got to make her homeless’,” says Karen, clearly upset by the notion that this is one of the few options available to them. “I can’t.”
The number of Ukrainian families presenting as homeless in England has increased by 22 per cent in the last month – in that time, 350 have registered as homeless (experts say the real number at risk of homelessness will be higher). The Local Government Association (LGA), the national representative body for councils, say they are “deeply concerned” about the growing numbers.
When a hosting arrangement comes to an end, the routes currently open to guests are: find a new host, rent somewhere privately, or agree with the host to extend the stay. If a guest needs help to be rehoused, their best bet is to register as homeless or at risk of homelessness to prompt the local authority to step in – they might arrange temporary accommodation, council housing, or help with rematching. In reality, there is often little they can do; housing was already in short supply, and though they receive funding from central government (£10,500 per person), backlogs often mean dealing with those who came is a slow process.
Stan Beneš, from Opora, a charity which supports Ukrainians in Britain, says a lot of people “find themselves in hotels before another solution can be found”.
As six month sponsorship arrangements come to an end, it is “absolutely crucial”, says Cllr James Jamieson, chairman of the LGA, that support for hosts is enhanced, particularly as inflation and energy costs increase “so new or existing hosts are encouraged to sponsor in the longer term.”
More work is needed, Cllr Jamieson says, “to be clearer to hosts and their guests about the challenges in finding affordable housing across the UK”, citing the “significant pressure” council housing and homelessness services are already under.
Renting on the private market is “virtually impossible” for someone like Yulia, says Karen. “You’ve got to pay three months’ rent upfront. Housing benefit will not match up to what they need.”
Their “best hope”, says Karen, is to find her a new host, someone in town, where Yulia would rather be as she has friends there. “I feel very guilty about not being able to help her anymore,” Karen says. “I’ve been working on this now for the last five weeks because I don’t want this to end in crisis.”
Karen and Mark were genuinely glad to open their home to refugees. “We wanted to do it [...] but as much as I’d love to have them [for longer], I just can’t do it any more. Six months is what I said I’d do. I had no idea how little support there would be.”
In some cases of hosting, relationships may have broken down, but for many, the government’s monthly “thank you” fee of £350 (assigned per household, not per guest, for 12 months) doesn’t go far amid the cost of living crisis; others simply need their spare room back. The government points out that most hosts want to continue to provide support, according to recent data.
Beneš says a “diminishing amount of potential hosts” is going to cause problems.
Local authorities, operating “with the meagre resources they currently have and not many concrete incentives coming from national government” are in a difficult position, he says. Council housing isn’t usually a viable alternative. “There isn’t enough of it at the best of times, there are long waiting lists and it’s just not a suitable solution for the vast majority of people.”
A government spokesman said councils had “a duty to ensure families are not left without a roof over their heads. The majority of sponsors want to continue hosting for longer than six months. Where guests do move on they have a number of options including to enter private rental or find a new host to sponsor them.”
Graham Ellis set up a support group for fellow hosts and guests where he lives in Wiltshire. Graham, 68, a town councillor, and his wife signed up to host “indefinitely”, but he knows families who were only able to offer six months. “There’s a liaison going on between hosts and guests saying ‘I hate to do this, but let’s make you homeless to get something done’, which is shocking.”
Wendy Hodges-Jackson, 50, and her husband Ian, 53, have had a family of four and their dog living in their summer house since April. At the end of the month they plan to extend their agreement. “We’re continuing on with the same process at the moment because there isn’t really an alternative. [...] They either go home to a country that’s still at war or they stay with us.”
Iryna Savchuk, 23, can still recall the first night she and her sister, mother and grandmother spent at the Hodges-Jacksons’ home in Hertfordshire. They had fled the bomb shelters of Kyiv when they saw a Facebook post about Britain’s Homes for Ukraine scheme. “It was like a fairy tale. From the war we found ourselves in paradise. We were welcomed very warmly: our own bed with pyjamas, our pictures everywhere, plenty of food in the kitchen.”

Wendy has helped Tanya, Iryna’s mother, get a job in a hotel. Iryna, who has a masters degree in marketing, works as a client delivery coordinator in London. Another member of the family, Katya, 18, is finishing her veterinary degree online and working at a local kennels. “How our future life in the UK will continue we do not know,” says Iryna. “It will largely depend on the situation in Ukraine and what steps the UK government will take towards Ukrainians.”
They hope to rent somewhere eventually. In the meantime, Wendy has started to ask for a small contribution towards the electricity bill. “What happens after three years? [...] There’s no plan from the government.”
One host I spoke to fears having to break it to her guests – a mother and her teenage daughter – that they’ll have to find alternative accommodation in January. “There is nothing concrete we can offer them,” she says. “Our guests are lovely, the mum is working very hard in two minimum wage jobs. [...] It makes it even harder to tell them that sometime soon they will have to move on.”
Another host would like to free up his room so he can offer it to someone new. His current guest “will be well looked after regardless. We won’t put her on the street, there’s no way that’s happening. But that’s not the case for all.” He hopes his guest might move in with her partner, whom she met here, but adds: “We made a promise; the country made a promise to these people that they would be welcomed open-armed and fairly treated.”
He worries that in another six months it will be much the same story. “They’re just kicking the can down the road.”
*Name has been changed.

Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:35

@C8H10N4O2 in my area, standard refugees are not considered a priority category. We've argued they should be. But the council will not interpret the homelessness act in this way.

GonnaGonnaGoing · 14/10/2022 08:38

To the poster who remarked that Zelensky is enjoying the fight now...I totally agree. More and more willy waving and hysterical whipping it all up language. In the end, there will have to be peace talks and both he and Putin will have to engage.
To the poster who said we must continue to provide tanks etc at a cost of millions-it is not millions-it is billions.
I didn't see such outrage when the UK had their soliders in Ireland, having cut the island in two, when Black and Tans were there and, in recent history, barbed wire and checkpoints on the UK's imposed border.
There are now more Catholics ithan Protestants in that part of Ireland but the UK won't be fucking off any time soon and there is no outrage about that!

To the displaced person points. There may be a lot of people on here saying that offering houses and school places to them above nationals is OK because...blah, blah blah but back at the ranch, a lot of people are or will be seriously pissed off and feeling hard done by.

It is of no consequence that Poland took more people, Poland is their neighbour and this whataboutery doesn't butter any parsnips.

To those who constantly meeet any personal experiences of other posters by asking how do they know. They know because it is going on and when even the BBC and Guardian write about it,.....

How do these posters who come out with this, know that it's NOT going on. Of course, they don't.

The authorities cannot build houses to house the world on this small island. You don't need to be brainy to work that out.

If the individual families individually invited Ukranians then it is up to them to continue housing them, Sometimes, virtue signalling comes back to bite one on the arse!

ReneBumsWombats · 14/10/2022 08:38

goodnightsugarpop · 14/10/2022 08:19

It's a horrendous situation but it should have been obvious to anyone with half a brain that this would happen. The government had no long term plan and there's a housing crisis. I thought very seriously about hosting (even though my flat isn't really big enough) as I very much wanted to help but I realised I wasn't willing to do it indefinitely and also couldn't imagine a situation where I could force someone out of my home when they had nowhere else to go.

This is how we felt as well. We discussed hosting and I did feel selfish for not doing it (although there are very few refugees in our area and many people who offered their houses didn't receive anyone). I suppose it was selfish and I don't like to think of how I'd have felt had I been a refugee myself. But yes, the whole thing looked very slapdash and badly planned and we had concerns.

We have been donating every month though, and we both do community volunteering for similar causes (have done for years). Still...

C8H10N4O2 · 14/10/2022 08:42

Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:35

@C8H10N4O2 in my area, standard refugees are not considered a priority category. We've argued they should be. But the council will not interpret the homelessness act in this way.

What do you mean by "standard" refugees? Refugees fall into multiple categories as I'm sure you know. Are they families with children in temporary housing or house in longer term asylum hostels (ie some security of roof even if its crap).

dworky · 14/10/2022 08:48

Or you could emigrate.

Eslteacher06 · 14/10/2022 08:48

@C8H10N4O2 sorry, I mean those that come through the asylum route. Familes, of course, fall into priority category. But I know of many men that end up on the street as they are fit and well with no dependents. Some of them with literal scars from being tortured.

PixellatedPixie · 14/10/2022 08:52

Something to consider is that the UK has the lowest unemployment in decades and we actually have a shortage of workers in many areas. Many countries in Europe have a similar shortage. Culturally , Ukrainians are known for working hard and not wanting to claim benefits. It’s seen as quite shameful and embarrassing in many circles to claim benefits.

Georgeskitchen · 14/10/2022 08:56

@BewareTheLibrarians try living in one of the several northern towns who are "playing host" to these young men. Mainly in the Brittania type hotel chains. Hanging around in large groups, yes, with their designer clothes and trainers and their apple iphones. Intimidating young girls.

Kendodd · 14/10/2022 08:57

fortheloveofflowers · 14/10/2022 08:13

There are many Ukrainians that are not and have no intention of ‘working their socks off’ the support sites are full of hosts complaining about this. I hosted a mum and daughter, mum worked only worked 2 or 3 6hour shifts a week and had no intention of working anymore than that. For some, I don’t think there is any incentive to work more as they are living bill free and getting full benefits. Not a Ukrainian thing either as there are plenty of British people that have the same attitude.

Mine have gone back to Ukraine as I gave them notice, my bills were much higher than they are in winter as they were always home, couldn’t be bothered to even take a full bin bag out, clean etc, daughter ignored us, no real interest in talking to us unless they wanted something, didn’t want to pay for anything, constant food bank usage despite having more disposable income than me a month. Very different values to me that I don’t believe were culture related, I have a very strong work ethic and believe you should do everything you can to help yourself, where you can that is.

I found the level of assistance and stuff thrown at them for free compared to other refugees outstanding and this didn’t sit well with me. I feel very sorry for other refugees that are given fuck all watching all of this. They went back as mum wanted everything done for her, didn’t want to find herself another host and certainly didn’t want to have to pay anything towards any rental property, thought that should all be paid for her. Plus didn’t want to put any effort into finding a rental property at all!

I think there will be a lot of resentment from people over the next few months due to the housing situation.

This is my experience as well. Ukrainians do quite well out of UC as they have no Bill's to pay. When my guest first arrived she mentioned she'd heard about public (council) housing and thought she would be housed. I basically told her to give up on that idea, it's almost impossible to get. I told her her best bet was to work as much as she could, save money while with me and not paying rent and try to find a place to rent. Actually, I think she was right and I was wrong, the council is housing people. Also she seems to think she has a better chance of a place if not working (no idea if true or not but this is the Ukrainian charter she hears) plus, she doesn't like any of the jobs she's been offered. I won't even go into her racism.

caringcarer · 14/10/2022 09:06

If we don't send Ukraine weapons to defeat Putin, he will win. If Putin wins he will just go after the next country Moldova or Rumania. We have simply got to keep sending weapons and air defences to Ukraine no matter how much it cost us. The US has done most but the UK has done more than other European countries in sending weapons to Ukraine. I know it is a huge expense but it is one we can't afford to stop paying. Boris was right.

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