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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Ukrainian families may just have to..

329 replies

FindingMyself1999 · 13/10/2022 22:15

Go back? bbc article

such a sad situation but we barely have enough housing or school places as it is. Unless the hosts can act as guarantors? That’s a possibility ?

the government really hasn’t thought through the aftermath of the hosting scheme.

OP posts:
pnutter · 14/10/2022 05:33

I'm hosting at the moment
I wasn't aware until they got here , that they weren't in Ukraine, I was basically lied to , they were in Holland , I was rather shocked to learn this but what can I do , they are here now
Another point, I've not received any hosting payments 4 months in . The council say that the background checks on me are still not done , although I have provided passport , utilities, etc etc.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 14/10/2022 05:46

I blame the media and previous governments. There has been massive immigration into this country over many many years, legal and illegal yet little real growth in infrastructure. People from abroad are seen as cheap disposable labour rather than real people with a variety of various needs, levels of ability, families. who need housing, social care, education and healthcare. The cost is huge for local councils yet local councils aren’t effectively funded to deliver these services. The media whip up hatred about whoever the last people “in” were instead of actually exposing the real issues which might lead to sensible decision making about resources and ability to look after people. There is no housing left and people are fighting for housing, whether social or rented. It’s horrible and those who have been in government or are in government should be very ashamed.

NormalNans · 14/10/2022 06:05

BewareTheLibrarians · 13/10/2022 23:13

Just a few things here.

Asylum seekers are not “illegals” due to the UK being signatories to the 1951 Refugee Convention. Calling them “illegals” is a racist right wing trope. Actual illegal immigration exists - it’s people who don’t present to the authorities on arrival, or who overstay their visas. Labelling asylum seekers as “illegals” makes your point really muddled, incorrect and doesn’t really do much to deflect those cries of “racist” as it’s a massive right wing trope. Don’t like it? Don’t quote them then.

We do not have a good record of taking asylum seekers through legal channels. Laughable. The scheme to resettle Afghan refugees has been a shit show to say the least with many who worked for the UK army still left in Afghanistan at the hands of the Taliban. Including women who are also at direct risk from the Taliban. Apart from the two Afghan resettlement schemes, and no small family resettlement scheme* for asylum seekers, there are no other functioning “legal” channels. To claim asylum in the UK you need to arrive in UK soil.

You’re right that Albanians are not in a war zone. However, there are huge problems with people trafficking, and the majority of Albanian asylum seekers (although not all) have proof of having been trafficked.

Young men in designer clothes and trainers? Asylum seekers live on about £8 a day. Your comments aren’t based on reality, or at least not on the reality I are working with asylum seekers and refugees. Knock off designer stuff form a cheap market stall? Sure. It’s affordable on that budget at a stretch. Donated clothes? Also yes. Actual designer clothes? Blatant bollocks.

*Family reunification schemes for legal migrants currently exist. This is not the same as family reunification for asylum seekers.

This is why MN needs a ‘like’ button

KvotheTheBloodless · 14/10/2022 06:09

We've been hosting a family of 4 (soon to be 5) for 6 months so far. We have no idea how we'll find affordable housing for them, we live in an expensive area and UC will only offer less than half the cost of renting, never mind the crazy utility bills they'll need to pay. Their two little DDs are settled at the local primary school, and have already been through SO much trauma, moving again would be so hard on them.

I'm happy for them to stay indefinitely but DH wants our private space back, which I understand. It's so difficult, though Sad

Softplayhooray · 14/10/2022 06:09

GonnaGonnaGoing · 13/10/2022 22:41

In the BBC article linked, it mentions that Cherwell Council were going to prioritise council accommodation for Ukrainians.

I imagine that will ruffle feathers-if it goes ahead-from home grown people who have also been waiting. If that hope is replicated by other councils, I think there will be a lot of angry and disappointed people, magnified when school places and nhs dentist places are also prioritised in this way.

My unpopular view-and I didn't always have it-is that we just cannot afford to carry on sending billions of pounds worth of weapons and bearing high costs and possible danger ourselves. At first, i supported Boris in his efforts to stand with Ukraine but now I think there may be trouble ahead!

The hosting Ukraine scheme was appallingly thought out by the Govt from the start, and was clearly just a short term solution with no long term plans. We need to send millions to fight Russia because if we don't, the escalation of Russia being emboldened to invade other countries and also use nuclear weapons without fear of retribution is too frightening. We're protecting ourselves when we protect Ukraine.

Aishah231 · 14/10/2022 06:23

Softplayhooray · 14/10/2022 06:09

The hosting Ukraine scheme was appallingly thought out by the Govt from the start, and was clearly just a short term solution with no long term plans. We need to send millions to fight Russia because if we don't, the escalation of Russia being emboldened to invade other countries and also use nuclear weapons without fear of retribution is too frightening. We're protecting ourselves when we protect Ukraine.

We're not protecting ourselves when we send weapons to the Ukraine. We're escalating tensions and prolonging the inevitable - which is peace talks and compromise. It suits the US to have a long bloody war in the Ukraine. There weapons manufacturers will make billions and they are a long way away from the warzone. Unless the West want to send in serious numbers of troops the Ukraine can't win - they can only prolong. It sounds like the kind thing to do to help but it's not. At the start of this conflict the Ukraine was offered peace if it agreed not to join NATO. The helpful West didn't even investigate that offer.

lollipoprainbow · 14/10/2022 06:27

*FindingMyself1999
I am aware of a family where the Ukrainian children were prioritised for a school place as someone else on the waiting list got told they’d gone from 2nd to 6th. So that’s already happened. If we can just support the refugees enough they really will work their socks off to pay their way. They don’t want handouts just ‘stabilising’*

They can work their socks off all they like they've still taken a school place from someone which is utterly wrong.

Era · 14/10/2022 06:37

I’m hosting a family of five. One mother four children. It’s unsustainable but how do you ask them to leave. The government knows that many hosts will feel unable to and will let the arrangement just carry on.

Softplayhooray · 14/10/2022 06:38

Aishah231 · 14/10/2022 06:23

We're not protecting ourselves when we send weapons to the Ukraine. We're escalating tensions and prolonging the inevitable - which is peace talks and compromise. It suits the US to have a long bloody war in the Ukraine. There weapons manufacturers will make billions and they are a long way away from the warzone. Unless the West want to send in serious numbers of troops the Ukraine can't win - they can only prolong. It sounds like the kind thing to do to help but it's not. At the start of this conflict the Ukraine was offered peace if it agreed not to join NATO. The helpful West didn't even investigate that offer.

Sadly Putin is the next Hitler and there is no such thing as peace talks or compromise with a person that mad. YEARS of research into Putin shows every single time that he takes negotiation and compromise as nothing but weakness and a signal to be more brutal and dominant, which he always does.

Parker231 · 14/10/2022 06:41

The uK has done very little compared to some other countries - over 1.4 million have applied for temporary settlement in Poland. The UK needs to step up and takes its share.

MarieG10 · 14/10/2022 06:43

FindingMyself1999 · 13/10/2022 22:48

I am aware of a family where the Ukrainian children were prioritised for a school place as someone else on the waiting list got told they’d gone from 2nd to 6th. So that’s already happened. If we can just support the refugees enough they really will work their socks off to pay their way. They don’t want handouts just ‘stabilising’

This is because many schools, particularly good faith ones have criteria that's gives high precedence to families moving into the area. Hence someone moving from another part of the U.K. or abroad can trump a local living down the road. This was a big issue in our area in the run up to the Brexit vote and was a factor. School appeals were rife that year for us because there had been a large move into the area from some EU citizens who displaced a load of local children from the school intake because children moving to the area came higher in the criteria

I have to say though that many schools determine their criteria

ParsleySageRosemary · 14/10/2022 06:50

Aishah231 · 14/10/2022 06:23

We're not protecting ourselves when we send weapons to the Ukraine. We're escalating tensions and prolonging the inevitable - which is peace talks and compromise. It suits the US to have a long bloody war in the Ukraine. There weapons manufacturers will make billions and they are a long way away from the warzone. Unless the West want to send in serious numbers of troops the Ukraine can't win - they can only prolong. It sounds like the kind thing to do to help but it's not. At the start of this conflict the Ukraine was offered peace if it agreed not to join NATO. The helpful West didn't even investigate that offer.

That’s absolute bullshit. You need to look up the Budapest Memorandum and understand that Russia has lied so often that it can no longer be trusted. You could also look up some of the speeches and material from Putin declaring that Ukrainian people do not exist as a separate identity. He wanted to quietly commit genocide and creep Russia’s land borders back to - where exactly? Back down the middle of Germany, or further still? - while the West continued their lulled sleep dreaming of gently murmured reassurances.

Era · 14/10/2022 06:50

It suits the US to have a long bloody war in the Ukraine. There weapons manufacturers will make billions and they are a long way away from the warzone.

well Russia is bloody enormous but America is obviously not a long way away from Russia.. there is a section where you can, at times literally walk across the ice from Russia to America.

hadtochangetothisone · 14/10/2022 07:04

Can hosts on here say why they want their arrangement to end. The BBC article doesn't really explain why.

In the first case it is obviously a very small space they are sharing and alludes to a 'bereavement' .. whilst the second, where space is not the issue doesn't really explain why at all.

I am just wondering if it is anything to do with the payment and the daft situation where a host is paid £350 regardless of how many people they are hosting.

I host a Ukrainian woman. She is a delight. We have a very small home and therefore not too expensive to heat, however with the aid of my smart meter I have worked out that having her here wfh, whilst I work in my office, costs almost an additional £200 a month in Electricity and heating oil alone. When the host payment is £350 perhaps it simply isn't enough. It's one thing to open your home up to a guest in need. If the costs are covered (such as my case) However the CoL crisis has meant now it actually COSTS hosts if they are hosting more than one person.

I would suggest increasing host payments to those who have hosted more than one guest for 6 months or more (to avoid opportunists) .

A lot cheaper than temp emergency housing.

ClaudineClare · 14/10/2022 07:11

BewareTheLibrarians thank you for that post. These threads always bring out the bigots.

Increasing payments to hosts is a good idea.

KermitlovesKeyLimePie · 14/10/2022 07:12

Honestly, knowing what a shit show of a Government we have I cannot believe anyone agreed to this half baked scheme in the first place.

I know the majority of hosts have done it as a good thing to do, however I also think they have been incredibly naive and shortsighted.

Did they think the war would be over in 6 months? If not, what then? And that couple in the article from Oxfordshire who are trying to get Social housing for their guests are obviously seriously out of touch with the reality of that situation.

LeChat0 · 14/10/2022 07:14

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at OP's request

Userno64473836326 · 14/10/2022 07:15

I questioned this from the start. Whilst I feel deeply sympathetic for the people of Ukraine and what's going on, moving here on paper was a fab idea, but I always questioned where they would live perhaps when their hosts couldn't host them anymore, they can't stay in these homes forever and we have a serious shortage of housing. They seem to be very hard working but the lack of housing is very real!

NeverDropYourMooncup · 14/10/2022 07:15

FindingMyself1999 · 13/10/2022 22:48

I am aware of a family where the Ukrainian children were prioritised for a school place as someone else on the waiting list got told they’d gone from 2nd to 6th. So that’s already happened. If we can just support the refugees enough they really will work their socks off to pay their way. They don’t want handouts just ‘stabilising’

What? How the fuck do you know who else applied and was added to the waiting list? Did you personally access the in year applications to see who else has applied and measure the distance from their houses to the school gate?

And how can they have been prioritised if they've been added to a waiting list? They're not in school at all when the vast majority of applicants on a waiting list for in year already have a place.

lollipoprainbow · 14/10/2022 07:16

@ClaudineClare bigots or realists?? Wake up we don't have enough housing, schools, etc ffs.

emmathedilemma · 14/10/2022 07:18

There’s 1300 refugees currently on a ship in Edinburgh, of which about a third a children. I’ve no idea what they’re all doing for school places or how long they’re planning to keep them onboard for but surely it can’t be a long term solution!

Parker231 · 14/10/2022 07:22

lollipoprainbow · 14/10/2022 07:16

@ClaudineClare bigots or realists?? Wake up we don't have enough housing, schools, etc ffs.

And other countries do have?

lollipoprainbow · 14/10/2022 07:25

@Parker231 I don't know why would I care, I'm talking about this country.

PinkFrogss · 14/10/2022 07:25

GonnaGonnaGoing · 14/10/2022 00:15

I believe you @pinkfrogs but my answer would be no, because I would feel it was a leapfrogging situation and I had been waiting longer.

Then again, I'm just a woman and not a plaster saint.

I know some posts have said it's the government's fault for not having enough housing and they don't it's true but then again, given that there is such limited stock, I really do feel that it should be given to those who have been on the list for longer.

I ask myself, if the situation were to be reversed and UK nationals fled to Ukraine would we be expecting their nationals to be dumped down the list while we took their place?
I'm not Mystic Me g but taking a wild guess, I think they would tell Alison and her children to fuck away off.

That’s fine, not everyone has to feel the way I do. I’ve been on the waiting list for years. For me personally I can’t get worked up about refugees getting houses above me, because then I’d have to be upset at single mothers, disabled people, and everyone else who has gotten once with less than a wait for me.

I am however very annoyed with the government, not just for the lack of council housing but also for the housing crisis in general. If rent and buying were more affordable then less people would need council housing. If they took the amount I pay in rent, and have paid for years and years without fail, they would see actually yes I can afford to pay a bigger mortgage - I’ve been paying someone else’s mortgage and then some for over a decade after all!

SaySomethingMan · 14/10/2022 07:29

FindingMyself1999 · 13/10/2022 22:48

I am aware of a family where the Ukrainian children were prioritised for a school place as someone else on the waiting list got told they’d gone from 2nd to 6th. So that’s already happened. If we can just support the refugees enough they really will work their socks off to pay their way. They don’t want handouts just ‘stabilising’

From the many posts on here, your last point is contrast to what many seem to want tbh