To think Ukrainian families may just have to..

[FindingMyself1999]

Go back? bbc article

such a sad situation but we barely have enough housing or school places as it is. Unless the hosts can act as guarantors? That’s a possibility ?

the government really hasn’t thought through the aftermath of the hosting scheme.

Perhaps if the government looked at their spending and decided that social care and infrastructure was actually important, this wouldn’t be such a mess….just a thought

So, just out of interest, if they decide they don’t want to go, what are you going to do? How are you going to force them on to those planes? Perhaps send them to Rwanda first? Obviously the children can be carried on, but that’s a bit trickier with grown-ups, especially if they start fighting back?

Because the family moved down are my friends. They moved into the area over a year ago (bought a business very centrally are most definitely in catchment and live above the business) and were told by the council they were second on the list. Since then another friend who is hosting a Ukrainian family, two of their daughters have got into the school ahead of my other friend’s son. Said friend called the council and they said they were prioritising Ukrainian families who come ahead (for whatever criteria) than her son so he’s now dropped to 6th on the waiting list (as other Ukrainian children come before him). That’s how I know.

That’s usually the norm for refugees who get the chance to be granted asylum and allowed to work. It is impressive indeed.

We all know the answer go your last question but I won’t derail the thread.

Yes, I think many are wilfully blind to all the work refugees and immigrants put in. Some are in professional and highly paid jobs, but there are also many in the lowest paid - there’s hardly anyone British working in our local care homes for example. And then of course there’s what is basically slave labour at the fruit picking farms.

Stop refugees coming over and migrants from poor countries because of “lack of resources” and you’ll find the country will actually just lack even more resources

I think there is a duty on those hosting too. Did they consider what would happen after 6 months? I bet most didn’t and invited people over from Ukraine anyway.
I think it was mostly people with very good intentions but no experience of the rental market and how difficult life is for lower paid people, how people have to compete for resources like housing, school places etc. It’s brexit in a nutshell.
I know someone hosting in a post part of Ealing, no longer wants her guests but had no clue how difficult the local rental market is and how high rents are. That’s because she bought her house in 1995 and is totally insulated from it. I have sympathy to some extent but basically think you invited them here, you sort it out rather than make it the local overstretched councils problem.

If she’s working, why doesn’t she pay extra towards the bills?

One of the biggest pressures on housing in my lifetime has been the increase in single person/single parent households. Nowadays we are concerned about the isolation of many living alone, especially older people.

Twenty odd years ago some councils were demolishing properties, because they had too many that were vacant, some because they were too costly to repair. They weren’t replaced in the same numbers. In this area, the Home Office had contracts for blocks of council flats to house asylum seekers, they no longer belong to the council, but are being improved and sold. People are also living longer, many older social housing tenants are pensioners, living in family sized accommodation. Even if they’d like to move, there maybe nothing suitable or affordable to downsize to.

Councils don’t all limit applications to just those applicants who are in need of housing, some still let anyone who is eligible register. Those lists include applicants who think they might like a council or housing association property one day, not just those in actual need of a home.

Explain how important not voting Tory- ever- is. Tell them about capitalism. Explain what a welfare state is and what it means and that it has to be paid for by taxpayers. Explain that when we began to provide state pensions over 60 taxpayers contributed for every pension paid- now it is something like 6 taxpayers for every pension paid. It was about 50 taxpayers for everyone who claimed benefits, now it's 3:1. Make sure they understand our vast environmental issues and what we need to do.
Explain about the private landlords who earn a lot of money from those who rent from them- yet still we allow them to clog up our housing issues and push up prices.
Tell them how the NHS has changed immeasurably from when it began and is unsustainable financially as things stand.
Tell them about wealth gaps in this country and how they occur.
Explain tax to them and how many people avoid it because the law allows them to.
Make sure they understand they have to do their bit to make the world a better place- so many don't.
Education is the silver bullet- it gives them choices in life. Give them that and self-confidence.

Is there even any housing to prioritise?

Housing is a shambles in this country. I live in an area where second homes have caused all sorts of issues and there are barely any private rents, let alone council ones. I wasn’t surprised to see the lack of support from councils - partly because they have nothing to play with - they haven’t for a long time. Wasn’t surprised to see the govt blame the LAs either. They do the same with social care - blame councils for something that needs national investment & policy.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but we have loads of Eastern European immigrants here who weren't fleeing war zones. I'm good friends with a Lithuanian who I met when I briefly lived in a house share a decade ago. She knows loads of other Lithuanians/Latvians who live here.

She works but also recently got awarded a council house. Really lovely one on a brand new newbuild estate in an expensive market town. Must admit I'm slightly jealous at times as her place is way nicer than my still decent appt. Most her neighbours seem to be youngish professionals in their 30s.

I wonder how many of the people saying that it’s fine and dandy that they’re not going to get a house or a school place after all because Ukrainians are being prioritised are actually on waiting lists for housing or school places.

This scheme was ill thought through from the start, but equally anyone who actually volunteered to host refugees was naive in the extreme and I suspect in some instances did it for a pat on the back, and he reality didn’t hit home until they had actual people living with them.

To the PP who wondered why hosts don’t want their guests to just stay indefinitely, it’s very simple. Having a load of strangers staying just isn’t sustainable. It changes your whole family dynamic. Most people wouldn’t have actual family staying for that length of time, and while doing a good thing in the beginning, individuals aren’t charities.

People thought this was going to be a short term thing. But it isn’t. This war is going to go on for years, and in truth it’s likely that Ukraine aren’t going to win. And as much as the people on the ground are suffering, Zelenskyy, himself now appears to be enjoying the fight and is going to do Ukraine far more harm than good in the long term.

A sign of the times.

No one, not even those in power, bother to think things through properly.

I agree.

But also explain that in some cases bleeding heart leftism doesn't work and that if we allow every single economic migrant to come here then there won't be any room left for genuine emergencies. I've lost count of the amount of time I've heard people say "oh, but we've got loads of space, only x amount of Scotland is populated." 🤦‍♀️

I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle, between idealism and realistic practicality.

Explain how important not voting Tory- ever- is.
It seems this thread highlights the lack of housing. How does Labour deal with this differently? I’d like to know because it’s one of my main concerns, I think it’s central to a lot of our problems especially those highlighted in this thread. Are Labour promising to change things like planning laws and overage etc etc ??

Yes the Ukrainian refugees mostly will go home eventually, but the war isn’t over. I would hope that if we needed it one day, people elsewhere would help us. That’s why we do it isn’t it? Also to protect ourselves. Anyone here thinking Putin was open to negotiation or that this was all about Ukraine joining NATO, is extremely naive. If there’s one thing I can commend Boris for, it was his response to this move by Putin. We have to help or Putin would keep going and move on to other countries and we would have WW3.

I don't have much faith in our current government (or any of the alternatives atm tbh) but I also feel like a lot of people expect the government to wave a magic wand.

It wasn't long ago that people were predicting the fall of the UK (still are) and handwringing about how we won't be able to come back from covid and the recession. That was even before the Ukraine war.

@sashagabadon exactly, the posh lawyers in the bbc article assuming their Ukrainians could just rock up and be given a social rental is laughable and totally naïve.

How on Earth would you know something like this to be true? Sounds like rubbish to me.

I have sympathy to some extent but basically think you invited them here, you sort it out rather than make it the local overstretched councils problem.

To be fair, though, she could kick them out tomorrow and still have done more to help than you or many other people have (assuming you're not hosting so apologies if you are).

Shr may well have already saved their lives.

@Galaktoboureko and this is what is all wrong, I can't even get onto the social housing list despite being a working single mum with a sen child and about to be made homeless thanks to my landlord selling.

Prioritising Ukrainian nationals because they are Ukrainian or simply doing the normal thing of prioritising homeless families in short term temporary accommodation?

Each time I've seen this claim made, the families being rehoused have been in the priority group by virtue of being families in temp accommodation due to come to an end.

Ukraine is a big country. Its hardly surprising if individuals have different opinions - they are not the borg.

That's terrible.

Tbf, my friend did suffer from a 'minor' cancer a year back and had to stop working but she is now fully recovered and only working part time since. As a friend I obv wish her the best but I'm a bit conflicted by the fact that she had medical insurance from her previous job but still opted to use NHS as it was easier. But I don't know the full details tbf.

There are many Ukrainians that are not and have no intention of ‘working their socks off’ the support sites are full of hosts complaining about this. I hosted a mum and daughter, mum worked only worked 2 or 3 6hour shifts a week and had no intention of working anymore than that. For some, I don’t think there is any incentive to work more as they are living bill free and getting full benefits. Not a Ukrainian thing either as there are plenty of British people that have the same attitude.

Mine have gone back to Ukraine as I gave them notice, my bills were much higher than they are in winter as they were always home, couldn’t be bothered to even take a full bin bag out, clean etc, daughter ignored us, no real interest in talking to us unless they wanted something, didn’t want to pay for anything, constant food bank usage despite having more disposable income than me a month. Very different values to me that I don’t believe were culture related, I have a very strong work ethic and believe you should do everything you can to help yourself, where you can that is.

I found the level of assistance and stuff thrown at them for free compared to other refugees outstanding and this didn’t sit well with me. I feel very sorry for other refugees that are given fuck all watching all of this. They went back as mum wanted everything done for her, didn’t want to find herself another host and certainly didn’t want to have to pay anything towards any rental property, thought that should all be paid for her. Plus didn’t want to put any effort into finding a rental property at all!

I think there will be a lot of resentment from people over the next few months due to the housing situation.

And my friend turned down several pretty decent properties as she wanted a largish garden for her two chihuahuas. The council seemed to have been pretty accommodating as we were all telling her not to look a gifthorse in the mouth. This is in a pretty affluent area though - not sure how much difference that makes.