Dm said she’s never seen a child as bad before as Dd

[Allweatewasspaghettihoops]

Parents are here to stay, Dd just 4 has always been energetic but not hugely difficult in behaviour. Since around March, we saw some changes and the last few months she’s having fairly bad meltdowns and is speaking not that nicely and being impatient and shouting/crying a lot, plus wanting things her own way.
Shes been over excited because they’re here and has also had less sleep. We’ve been going out everyday and today we got up as usual and went to get ready. As I was doing her hair, she completely lost it, screaming and crying and saying I was doing it wrong, each time I kept trying to do what I thought she was asking, I was getting it more wrong and she was getting more upset.
I tried really hard to keep my patience, but I admit I felt out of control and just could not calm her down at all. I ended up sitting away a little on the bed and crying in frustration.
Dm came up looking really shaky and upset and almost crying and asked if I was ok and all was ok, she put her hand on my shoulder.
I ended up being able to calm her down and we lay cuddled together. I was so emotionally drained and feel like I’m walking on eggshells sometimes with her behaviour.
This afternoon I was talking to dm and she was saying none of us were anything like that and that she’s worked in a nursery and never seen a child get like that…ever 😢
She says I should go to the doctor with her asap.
I agree that this mornings episode was v intense and probably the worst I’ve had as she looked like something was driving her and she literally couldn’t stop. But I’m feeling really shocked and upset by the way Dm has described it all and I’m really worried now.
Does this sound really terrible for a just turned 4 year old?

Sounds pretty normal to me, my 4 year old has been a terror at times over the last year but he's starting to calm down and we haven't had a proper melt down since he started school.

I agree with this. Your DD is exploring the possibility that you don’t know everything and that she can make her own decisions.
I think maybe firmer boundaries would be the way forward. Her ability to make decisions should be through limited (by you) choices ie this outfit or that one etc. Lots of things are by your decisions ie brushing teeth is non- negotiable and shouting at you is not acceptable. Praise DD for positive choices and ignore the bad ones (as long as it’s safe obviously)

Your 4yo sounds within the bounds of what is typical for that age group. I'd say part of the problem is that her behaviour makes you so anxious, and then she picks up on your anxiety and that probably makes things worse. It might be better to ignore and just get on with things sometimes rather than trying constantly to placate her. She needs to learn that the world does not solely revolve around her.

While your 4yo sounds normal, your parents sound incredibly irritating to me. I've occasionally had my MIL/DM come back to me and (paraphrasing) tell me that my DC has been an annoying moany little oik when they're been out with grandparents, and I have no problems with that, but the Friday faces and catastrophising you seem to have to deal with from your parents would irritate me hugely.

Oh OP, I think you definitely did the right thing keeping her off! I kept my 3yo off one day this week and we spent the whole day on the sofa reading, colouring, etc - it was lovely and he obviously needed it.
Your parents do sound like really hard work and Im so sorry that they are making you so anxious about your DD. I hope you manage to have a relaxing day somehow.

It sounds as if your DD is crying out for you to take some of the responsibility off her. This child led approach, where she decides everything, while it's happening and emotions are high, is exhausting for her and isn't going to do her any favours in the long run. There is a balance where you take their opinion into account but don't overwhelm them. Control how much responsibility she has - before you start, pony tail or pigtails - but don't give her open ended questions yet, she's too little. Don't even ask her if she's happy with her hair until you've reset the idea it's her job, just say "All done, let's go and do x fun thing now!" What looks to you like giving her control, is really piling on the responsibility.

You sound so unsure of yourself, even the back and forth at keeping her off school. You have made that decision, move on. There isn't enough hours in the day to spend this much time on a minor decision. Show her how freeing it is to make a decision and move on with your day - learn this yourself.

Try not to validate to her that a slightly imperfect hairstyle is a reason to cry and not get on with things, you should be the adult giving her a sense of perspective and showing that her hairstyle doesn't really matter. The first time she complained, I would have said "if I'm helping you, you do not talk to me like that," and walked away if she tried to make a drama out of it - life is too short. Being kind and polite is more important than the exact height of a pigtail, you need to show her this, it doesn't come naturally. Your job at this age is to move from the phase where you adjust her surroundings to suit her, mashing food etc, to showing her how to adjust to the world.

My DD is 11 and as they got older, the kids parented as if the world revolves around them have become more and more unpopular - can't lose a game, can't stand someone having something they don't have, bossing people around. If you find it tiring and hard work to be around your child, so will other children. It's no small gift to give her a wider sense of perspective and the social skills to think about other people.

A week is too long for guests. 2 nights like fish they stink after day three.

it sounds like they prefer to be able to carry on as though dd isn’t there or is just something you get out of a box when you feel like it. Have they tried to send any time actually helping?

If they want to suggest dd is the problem I’d just shut it down. She sounds like a little girl having a hard week, and you sound like a mum having a hard week too. give dd a big hug from all of us and go play with her on the beach.

This is quite a bizarre post. Of course she should of gone to preschool. That's how they learn to adjust to busy days. You can't pander to unwanted behaviour, you are her parent fgs. She's not a baby, stop treating her like one. I dont think she sounds like she has adhd she sounds like she doesn't have a parent who installed boundaries. She's a product of you. Kids are adaptable so stop making excuses. Kids can handle stimulation. You come across as a bit whimsical in your approach and it's not doing your dd any good

Yep.

You may find, OP, that having children does tend to rake up alllll the feels that we may have successfully avoided as adults. All those buried familial tensions.

There's a book called 'when your kids push your buttons' that's really interesting on the subject.

It can be very hard to get all those feelings stirred up, but in a way it's an opportunity to look at them (maybe with the help of a good therapist/counsellor) and heal parts of yourself that have been ignored for many years.

@DuckPuddledJemima wow, your approach sounds like a steamroller. I’m sure it breads Teflon coated people but is resilience really built that way? It sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I agree.
I had a tantrummer, being overtired and/or frustrated was a key factor. She is a calm and considerate teenager now, wonderful company and an all round lovely girl. She is a sensitive and thoughtful person, and I think often felt conflicting feelings, or overwhelmed, when she was small.
Only just four is still a toddler. A friend’s dd was very stroppy and difficult at five, but has been a very easy going teenager, she is nearly 20 now.

I totally agree with this comment. My son started school a couple of months after turning 4, he didn't exhibit any behaviour like this.

It's the 2-3 years of age that have the temper tantrums, awful behaviour. It should be a lot better by 4.

OP, you mention it's got a lot worse since March especially with the meltdowns, so things have gone downhill rather than getting better. You're clearly worried about something being wrong, so why not book in to talk to the doctor for your own piece of mind?

Honestly OP, I don't think your DP are being very helpful at all and I think it's adding to both your stress levels and DDs.

I'm going to start this by saying that my now 11yo DD is such a great, easy going, delightful child. I'm not trying to rub salt in your wounds but I want to explain that between birth and 4 years old she was a total handful! Honestly, she was demanding and headstrong and could have one hell of a tantrum! I couldn't but her down or she was screaming for me. I remember trying to get groceries in Asda and carrying her around under my arm screaming because she would not sit in the trolley or she would not walk! Once she started nursery at just over 3 and settled in there she became a different child and now she is a total dream.

I think the main thing to think about is what you're concerned could be wrong? Don't be thinking down the ADHD line because it can't be diagnosed until after 7 years old, and this is because many younger children who display these symptoms change as they grow older.

If you are concerned about possible autism then have a read about the how it manifest in girls. Is she sociable? Can she take turns in play, maintain eye contact? When you play along side her does she let you join in or does she have her own agenda?
I know she has just started nursery but I'd be interested to hear their thoughts. Does she transition well? Has she made any friends?

I feel for you OP, but I think things will be easy when your DP go home. Be confident in yourself though, you know your DD better than anyone.

I don't know how old the DPs are but when mine were young (now adults) you could smack naughty children - hence DCs didn't run around the cafe, have screaming tantrums.
And how hands on was your DF? To now be a fount of knowledge on childrearing.

Honestly , just ignore them, apologise as DD is over excited at their visit.

DD is probably feeling all the tension and your anxiety and responding to it.
Drop them at the beach - then join them later, bring them back for a nice lunch.

do you think they might have wanted some time alone with you without your daughter there too? It must be quite tough to have quality conversations and relax if a 4-y/o is there constantly?

This is quite a bizarre post. Of course she should of gone to preschool. That's how they learn to adjust to busy days

She is 4! Preschool is optional for a reason. It’s absolutely fine to give your kids days off because they’re tired. (Speaking as someone who has given liberal days off preschool but has never had kids skipping/asking to skip a day of school for similar…)

I don't really have anything to add other than I think your parents staying is causing you to have huge anxiety over how you parent your daughter. If it's any help at all my three year old is generally a sweet well behaved boy but every time the next door neighbours call round he goes feral and does all sorts of naughty things that he wouldn't ever do otherwise. They probably think he is awful but I know otherwise and so do you about your daughter. Maybe your parents are being a little over dramatic?

@Dinhop i think that’s the case but I also think it’s utterly unreasonable of them.

Thanks all, so they came downstairs and headed out and said they were going to a place that has cafes by the beach. I said ‘Oh are we not meeting you at our beach?’ Mum said, rather abruptly ‘Well, what do you want to do?’ 🤷🏻‍♀️Dad then said ‘We’re going to…(name of place)’ and off they went. So it’s almost like they’re angry with me, for what?! This is so hard to understand. Dd is now sat quietly doing a water paint book with me with no running around or shouting/getting upset.

We had (I thought) already made the arrangement that they’d walk to the beach, we’d get ready calmly and then meet them there.

I’m going to have a calm morning with Dd at home, have some lunch with her and then take her for a walk in the forests with our dog when I think they might be about to be back. Just a lot easier.
They leave tomorrow

Sounds to me like you are doing a great job OP. Don't be so hard on yourself. Having people to stay is a big shift for a child (even if they are grandparents), and having lots of activities and outings is tiring (even if they are fun). I'd give your DD a break and accept she is just tired and struggling to cope with lots of emotions. I wouldn't call it a tantrum - i think of these are specifically acting up to get something they want. A meltdown is much more out of control and just being over-run with emotion and fustration. My DS(8) has meltdowns (always has) - they have become less frequent now, but still happen, usually when he is tired, or as a result of change (including simple things like going back to school after the holidays). I spoke to the school (he is perfectly well behaved there) and they were fab and the SENCO put some sessions in place to see if there was anything underlying it that could be responsible (no issues found). I'm coming to the conclusion it is just the way he is - there isn't a label for everything. A wise (older) friend advised me (after hearing a recent meltdown) that it is often best to deal with things as they present themselves rather than trying to label them - my DS doesn't fit any standard diagnosis, and is mostly very lovely, loving, caring and sensitive, and it sounds like your DD is too.

Honestly I agree with this. Your mum might be right, but she also might have some unrealistic expectations for small children.

Give her - and yourself - a break.

They’re sulking. Lord you’re getting it from both sides aren’t you. Just have a fun day with dd and see them when they get back. You are allowed to be happy even if they are feeling miffed. Dd is here and they need to adjust to someone else being important too.

Ahh enjoy your day OP. Guests always made me tense. I felt judged and my kids knew that they could push boundaries.

Even now my mum purses her lips if one of my boys is deemed to have done something inappropriately and they're much older. My MIL claimed none of her 5 boys ever tantrummed!! My older son used to scream like a banshee and was constantly tantrumming. She was pretty shocked. Turned out he has ASD. BUT I'm not saying your daughter has that! She's still so young, routine disrupted, expected to adjust to new rules from your parents that she never knew before, may sense you are perhaps uncomfortable too?

Relax, breathe, enjoy your day. Just one more to go.

Oh OP you really are having a tough time of it. As a previous poster said, I think our own kids can stir up issues from before, we can be triggered by behaviours that were considered ‘unacceptable’ by our own parents. And it definitely sounds like your DM considers emotional outbursts unacceptable. You’ve made the right choice today and try not to worry about your parents seeming annoyed, that’s on them in this instance.

@Itisbetter But sulking about what?! That my child had a meltdown and I chose not to take her to pre school today. Why aren’t they supporting me, almost blaming me and angry with me, doesn’t make sense at all