Dm said she’s never seen a child as bad before as Dd

[Allweatewasspaghettihoops]

Parents are here to stay, Dd just 4 has always been energetic but not hugely difficult in behaviour. Since around March, we saw some changes and the last few months she’s having fairly bad meltdowns and is speaking not that nicely and being impatient and shouting/crying a lot, plus wanting things her own way.
Shes been over excited because they’re here and has also had less sleep. We’ve been going out everyday and today we got up as usual and went to get ready. As I was doing her hair, she completely lost it, screaming and crying and saying I was doing it wrong, each time I kept trying to do what I thought she was asking, I was getting it more wrong and she was getting more upset.
I tried really hard to keep my patience, but I admit I felt out of control and just could not calm her down at all. I ended up sitting away a little on the bed and crying in frustration.
Dm came up looking really shaky and upset and almost crying and asked if I was ok and all was ok, she put her hand on my shoulder.
I ended up being able to calm her down and we lay cuddled together. I was so emotionally drained and feel like I’m walking on eggshells sometimes with her behaviour.
This afternoon I was talking to dm and she was saying none of us were anything like that and that she’s worked in a nursery and never seen a child get like that…ever 😢
She says I should go to the doctor with her asap.
I agree that this mornings episode was v intense and probably the worst I’ve had as she looked like something was driving her and she literally couldn’t stop. But I’m feeling really shocked and upset by the way Dm has described it all and I’m really worried now.
Does this sound really terrible for a just turned 4 year old?

I don’t know if it’s ‘normal’ but it’s not healthy. Your mum is not really respectful of your role as parent and seems quite child-like herself. But maybe she’ll have time to reflect on it all when she leaves and see that for herself. You seem to have a loving relationship with her overall and I’m sure things will come right again. Try not to be tempted to apologise or ‘fix’ how your mum is feeling though, I really don’t think you’ve done anything wrong.

Your mother is very manipulative. She's essentially trying to make you upset for not putting them ahead of your DD. I don't see anything wrong with how you pivoted for DD and I would have kept her off today too for a calm and loving day at home with me and a walk with the dog to get some balance back.

I think the fact you've had to literally question yourself at every step of this shows exactly who your mum is: someone who creates more doubt than confidence in their own children, at the detriment of the child and benefit of the parent.

These long visits are clearly causing issues. There is a weird triangulation going on between you, Dd and DM. Your mum is making a bit of a fool of herself to be getting so wound up about this. And you seem like you’re on tenterhooks too. Just who are these week long visits working for?? Time for me a reset all round.

I agree with this OP.

Starting pre school will be a big change for her, and a lot of children behave really well at school and save all the tantrums for their safe space when they get home.
Add to that being overtired from being out a lot, the excitement of people staying etc, it's a recipe for a meltdown. And she is only 4! She's still so young and just figuring out how to deal with her emotions.

From your most recent update I think your mum needs to understand that your dd is your number 1 priority, and you know best what she needs. If that's a day off and some space to relax then that's fine.
A week is a very long time for house guests, and I think most people would be struggling by day 5 before you add in the overtired, overstimulated pre schooler!

Ok. Well how silly of her/them to think they could dictate how you parent and to visit you and expect you to prioritise them above your own very small child. I think you need to take a big breath and be very clear that they aren’t being kind or reasonable.

I’m particularly upset at them being so unkind about a tired muddled little girl to the point of suggesting to her mum she needs to take her to the Dr because her fairly unremarkable behaviour is somehow a medical problem. That said have a little cry about it and then start working towards the family you want. They are going to need firm handling to become comfortable and happy in their new role, and you may have to accept they just can’t or won’t be the grandparents you hoped.

I think weekends rather than weeks for a bit is an easy improvement. You may find it easier with one at a time or to make sure your partner is home so there’s someone to help Dd. Be absolutely rigid about discussing “what’s wrong with Dd” anywhere she can hear. It will impact her and your job is to protect her.

You actually sound really thoughtful and in touch with all their needs. Think it through and trust the conclusions you draw.

@Schmordle I really don’t think I’ve done anything wrong either 🤷🏻‍♀️I veer between feeling guilty I'm a shit daughter and should have made more time for them and feeling angry that they’re putting this on me when they’re grown adults who can see that Dd is being challenging and should be supporting me, rather than making me feel crap for not thinking of them enough

Your mum is upset you took her for a drive and a McDonald's to the point that she's crying? The over the top displays of emotion (to be clear I'm talking about your mother here not your daughter) are not normal, and perhaps you should gently suggest to your father that you've never seen a woman of her age behave like that and maybe it's time for a trip to the GP as she's probably got something diagnosably wrong with her.

@BatshitBanshee I know, I actually feel really weird and confused. When she started to be angry at first and almost have a go at me at first, I was so shocked as it seemed so ridiculous, she was saying how they were *Left to walk to the beach (my dad goes on his own all the time and actually prefers it)
She even said I was hoovering this morning and not making any plans to go out (when I’d already said fo her, they could perhaps walk to the beach and I’d get Dd calmly ready and get a picnic and come to meet them) she said they didn’t care about hoovering and I said I did after a week and I can Hoover if I need to! Seriously I felt 15 years old or something. It was just all a bit weird and I couldn’t believe she was crying, everything she was attempting to *Accuse me of, I had an answer for and it was all to do with Dd and I also expressed how hard things were with her and I need support sometimes, not blaming, I also said it created a bad atmosphere for Dd too. I honestly felt like she was being like a child and I was the adult like wtf. I really don’t understand it at all. I even said to her I do so much when they are here for them-make every dinner, drive them places and try to make things happy and what more am I supposed to do and that a 4 year old needs me more than they do. This should not need explaining surely!
Sat here feeling angry now as all the things I was trying to do were to calm Dd and get her out of their hair etc and all things I thought were the best for everyone.

@Happinessisabook I don’t see how they can stay again with it being like this tbh

@Itisbetter This is how it feels…that they have no comprehension of Dd and her needs, I don’t understand it. I even said that she/they must look outside themselves for the reasons for things and what others are going through. It just seems so incredibly selfish, I was gobsmacked.

@GoutFine I actually said to her ‘Are you joking?’ As I couldn’t believe what she was saying. She didn’t understand why I took her for a drive, although I explained it so many times and then said ‘You even took her for McDonald’s!’ Saying we’d planned two days and we haven’t done anything.
Starting to feel pissed off that it sounds like they were just annoyed the daily plans of going places changed and that they ‘Were left to walk to the beach?’ How horrific, it’s 15 minutes walk, whilst I was grappling with an overtired, upset daughter

Ignore. My mum said horrible things about my dd not being 'normal' when she'd have awful meltdowns. She's 6 and has them very very occasionally still. But she's amazing and there's nothing 'wrong' with her, she doesn't need to go to the doctor, she's figuring out life and how to handle things herself. It doesn't matter what she's like compared to others. It's taken me a long time to realise this. Plus looks can be deceiving, I witnessed her friend have a meltdown recently who I always thought was a 'good' child. Plus 4 is still very young. It will get better x

Have you always bended to your mother's needs or is it really since they have been coming to stay as "visitors"? Because I wonder if you just did as DM expected before when DD when smaller, as a baby/toddler is slightly easier to corral but now that DD is a bit more challenging (rightly so, her home and her mummy is turned upside down by judgemental visitors) it's a problem because it's not as easy for you to pacify DD to go along with DM. And you're having to make a choice - and you're rightly choosing DD. I don't see anything you did "wrong" with DM tbh, and I think for most parents who do like to please others, there does come a point where you have to say "no one else matters because I need to help DC" and it goes against our nature to just please everyone all the time but what's what's needed.

It's also really important to form our emotional boundaries with our parents... i.e. you can apologise for being hurtful but you don't have to apologise for making someone uncomfortable with the truth. Forcing someone to confront their own nonsense and false narratives is painful - for them.

Also just think: if this wasn't my mum, and these were any other guests, would I accept this behaviour? If the answer is no then you're not in the wrong.

OP please don't doubt yourself here. They've turned up to visit you both not just you. Your daughter is a person and you as her mother are rightly prioritising her needs. Your parents don't need to sit there silently judging and watching, they're part of the family and could muck in or read the room and take themselves off to a cafe for the morning to give you some breathing space.

As for not allowing your to Hoover over the course of a week - no wonder you're confused they're behaving in an astonishingly crazy way! Are they expecting you drop everything including what your young child needs, to amuse and entertain them non stop?

They're gaslighting you. Your daughter is totally normal. Next time don't let them stay this long or undermine you in your own home. I actually feel sorry for both you and your daughter reading all of this. I hope you can hold it together until they leave.

@FindersKeeper Before Dd came along, I was much easier going, as in, I’d them somewhere every day, usually where they wanted to go, I wasn’t fussed, it was only me to think about. When Dd came along, it had to change, I remember being exhausted when she was a tiny baby and just really wanting to stay in and crying whilst getting the buggy out of the boot of the car and attempting to put it up in my sleep deprived haze, because df wanted to go to a cafe by the beach. I look back at that and can’t believe it. I feel this slight pull away more and more now as she gets older as I choose days I make sure Dd and I stay in to chill or places to go that Dd will want to go too and not just them.

@GoutFine Gaslighting how and why?

You are not a hotel/chauffeur/entertainments provider and your daughter isn’t a backdrop. Your parents need to go somewhere else for that and come to your home TO SEE YOU AND DD. They may not dictate where you go, what you eat, or when you clean. How utterly self absorbed are they?

Your mother is punishing you for the fact that your life no longer consists of orbiting around her. Hence the vile denunciation of your child and the eye rolling and silent treatment when you assert your role as a mother, not just their daughter. Hence also the 'guess what you've done to ruin my life today' mind games.

There are lots of online resources for adult children of narcissists, and a therapist could help you make sense of the bewilderment and feeling of being kicked in the teeth that you're feeling.

For now, I think you need to refer your parents to an Air BnB next time they descend on you. It's time to start quietly establishing boundaries here.

Just out of interest, do your parents get any joy out of their relationship with your DD (and vice versa)? Do they even have an independent relationship with your DD or is it filtered through you? For instance, when they're staying, does your DD run in to see them in the mornings? Do they ever take her places by herself?

They sound very self-centred and it seems an odd grandparent dynamic. Most grandparents I know do a lot of things that they might not necessarily enjoy themselves (adventure parks, farm parks, soft play, swimming, building sandcastles on the beach or just trips to the playground) because seeing their grandchildren having fun and enjoying themselves brings them joy. Your parents seem to think that your DD should simply slot in with their wants and preferences, which is fine some of the time but clearly there are going to be times when that's not going to work and they should understand that you need to be adaptable with a small, overwhelmed child (or no one is going to have any fun whatsoever).

Oh my DD’s were horrendous at that age, much worse than they were at two when it’s supposedly the ‘terrible twos’. I found four the toughest age I’d say with them, especially when they’d just started school and were tired and sick constantly.

Definitely daily meltdowns, lots of screaming about ridiculous things. They did settle down and now at 10 and 11 very rarely have screaming fits!

@Goldbar Dd runs into them in the morning, they chat for a bit and then they say for her to go downstairs. Mum said the other day ‘She came into my room
in the morning!’ I was like ‘Yes…?’ They are cuddly with her sometimes and df plays with her sometimes but Dm doesn’t really or ask her much etc
We never go to playgrounds, if I’ve headed that way, they hurry us up, it all annoys me and it’s hurtful. It’s so self centred. They’ve never done anything alone with her

Gaslighting by becoming visibly distressed and saying it's because they're so worried about your daughters behaviour - terrifying you that there's something wrong.

Gaslighting you by sulking end acting like victims because you wouldn't take them on the day out they wanted - acting completely aggrieved by you even though you're just doing your best to parent your young child.

Most grandparents would want to see their grandchild and would fully expect day to day life to be different when a young child is involved.

I can't get over the fact they won't allow you to clean when you want.

They won't go to playgrounds? I think you need to be a bit more assertive here, something like:

"We won't join you at another cafe today, it's not fair on DD to expect her to sit that long. She needs to blow off some steam we are going to a playground if you'd like to join us?"

When they start sulking and guilt tripping you:

"Mum/ Dad - I can't go along with all of your plans for the full week. I have DD to think about too, you're welcome to join us in more family friendly activities but I won't feel guilty for parenting my young child. She doesn't just disappear when you come to stay."

If they then start the whole get her to a GP routine:

"There's nothing wrong with her she's just reacting to being cooped up all week. You're expecting her whole routine to change and it isn't fair. You're here to visit both of us and she must be taken into account."

@GoutFine Mum said, in exasperation’You started hoovering! You weren’t even getting ready for the day to go anywhere’

Just woke up feeling so shit and still a weird shocked, the way my mum was saying ‘You went to McDonald’s! angry like I’d taken her for the day out or something, when I clearly hadn’t

Is it an age thing? I’ve noticed them becoming more self obsessed over the last few years, although dad always was and is v selfish.