Dm said she’s never seen a child as bad before as Dd

[Allweatewasspaghettihoops]

Parents are here to stay, Dd just 4 has always been energetic but not hugely difficult in behaviour. Since around March, we saw some changes and the last few months she’s having fairly bad meltdowns and is speaking not that nicely and being impatient and shouting/crying a lot, plus wanting things her own way.
Shes been over excited because they’re here and has also had less sleep. We’ve been going out everyday and today we got up as usual and went to get ready. As I was doing her hair, she completely lost it, screaming and crying and saying I was doing it wrong, each time I kept trying to do what I thought she was asking, I was getting it more wrong and she was getting more upset.
I tried really hard to keep my patience, but I admit I felt out of control and just could not calm her down at all. I ended up sitting away a little on the bed and crying in frustration.
Dm came up looking really shaky and upset and almost crying and asked if I was ok and all was ok, she put her hand on my shoulder.
I ended up being able to calm her down and we lay cuddled together. I was so emotionally drained and feel like I’m walking on eggshells sometimes with her behaviour.
This afternoon I was talking to dm and she was saying none of us were anything like that and that she’s worked in a nursery and never seen a child get like that…ever 😢
She says I should go to the doctor with her asap.
I agree that this mornings episode was v intense and probably the worst I’ve had as she looked like something was driving her and she literally couldn’t stop. But I’m feeling really shocked and upset by the way Dm has described it all and I’m really worried now.
Does this sound really terrible for a just turned 4 year old?

I think you have a parent problem rather than a dd problem!
You sound like you are second guessing yourself in all your posts. Just remember as the mum YOU know best.
How old are your parents? Are they becoming stuck in their ways, old fashioned parenting views and not listening to you?
It can be a very intense time having people stay both for you and your dd.
Dd very excited and lack of sleep. Picking up on you being tense and being judged so slightly changing your parenting ways. Totally normal if you are being watched to be on edge!
I wouldn't judge your dd behaviour while you have people stay.
Once they go and everything calms down see how she is over a longer period of time.
Don't listen to your parents saying they haven't seen a child act like this before - what a ridiculous thing to say!

They sound pretty useless as grandparents, sorry. I'd invite them a lot less and lay down clear boundaries for when they are staying. I don't think your DD should have to deal with them taking over her home or her parent for long periods of time, or having age-inappropriate expectations about the length of time she can sit quietly being put on her.

We're lucky with grandparents here, but both sets of grandparents are constantly on the lookout for fun stuff for DC to do - I frequently get messages 'Would DC enjoy this?', 'We could take them out here for the day next time you're staying', 'We've found a new playground for when you're visiting' etc. Although it might be unfair to expect this of all grandparents, especially depending on age and energy levels, I would expect most grandparents to be willing to do a mix of child-friendly and other activities when visiting, even if they prefer to watch from the coffee shop rather than actively get involved. And to be willing to talk to and interact with their grandchildren around the house. Otherwise, why bother visiting?

Mum and dad are also quite shocked about a lot of children’s behaviour..they complain about children running around cafes etc (Dd doesn’t do this) but I think they expect more from that age and might remember things differently?They expect Dd to sit for ages in cafes without anything around for her to play with etc

This is very, very common. Unless you're in the thick of it with young children I think you simply forget what it was like (or purposely want to erase all the shite from your memory 😆) many grandparents expectations are way off. My mum has revised history at times insisting we didn't do this and we didn't do that, except we did as I haven't forgotten and I also haven't forgotten that tantrums only ended quicker when there was a hard smack given to said child. Of course she leaves that part out and would be utterly disgusted if anyone hit their child now - and even gets arsey if I raise my voice with my DC! Wrings her hands "ooohhh try not to shout". I bite my tongue (hard!) but am safe in the knowledge that she's often just wrong in her expectations.

Trust your gut on this one OP. I have a 4yo, she has the very occasional scream/stamp of her foot if she's over tired/angry but doesn't have meltdowns. However that's probably down to her innate temperament (she's always been an easy child) my eldest DD was much more intense and I know enough 4yo's to know that plenty of tantrums go on every day.

There's pressure when people are staying at your house, she will be out of whack with that and will have picked up on your stress. I wouldn't let her scream at you repeatedly that you're doing things wrong etc. I'd be pretty firm that she can't scream at you, give her a few minutes to gather herself/apologise if necessary and then get on with things. She may very well just be in a stage that will pass soon. Stand firm and clear with your boundaries in the meantime and she'll know what's acceptable and what's not.

It's tough going, so go easy on yourself.

My dad can't stand small children, makes little effort and as result we don't see him much at all. Do what's best for you and you DC. 4 year olds have tantrums, that's normal

Are my parents narcissists? Just sat here and feel like my head is really confused and that reaction wasn’t normal at all

Maybe? Maybe they are dealing with their own fears and worries and doing the best they can. It doesn't really matter, OP. Take care of yourself and your daughter and don't waste energy trying to diagnose them. You may find counselling helpful.

@ArabellaScott Fears and worries about what though

I don’t think it’s helpful to label them as narcissists/gaslighting etc. They have been used to a certain relationship dynamic with you and now that has to change, as you rightly prioritise your daughter’s needs. Your DM is finding this hard and not reacting very well - I think if you could separate yourself from her emotions it would help. I doubt your mum is intentionally trying to hurt you.

Sorry I’m late to the party here but I’ve read all your posts OP (though not everyone else’s…sorry).

Just wanted to say I really admire that you were able to talk about it with your parents instead of bottling it up until they left.

I’m sure you’re already questioning your relationship with your parents, and I hope it makes things clearer for you.

Philippa Perry’s “The Book You Wished Your Parents Had Read” is all about analysing your own childhood experiences and how it can affect your parenting, if that kind of thing appeals to you.

The part where you described putting up the pram with a newborn and crying from exhaustion because your parents wanted an outing. That is so alien to me - my parents would have offered to take the baby out so I could rest, not demanded outings.

Also the part where your mum was shaky and emotional when DD was having a meltdown - why did she come in and unload her emotions on you at that time? She should have come in to support, or if she couldn’t, should have stayed away and calmed herself down. Sounds like she was trying to make it about her somehow.

It sounds like your parents are expecting you to host a holiday for them, rather than them visiting to spend time and help out a little, which I think most grandparents would.

Well - that's their issue? It seems like your relationship is stuck in a difficult dynamic. One has to step back out of the drama of blame/rescue/attack to move on.

It's understandable that you are hurt and confused by the situation. But trying to work out who is 'right' or 'wrong' is only continuing the power struggle and won't help you heal and grow.

Best focus on what you do have control over? You can't change your parents' responses and actions. You can control your own. You are responsible for your daughter and yourself, not for your parents.

Sometimes you find when you stop reacting to someone out of old patterns and habits, they are also able to grow and move on. But in any case, it's out of your control, so pointless to focus on it.

It sounds like your parents are expecting you to host a holiday for them
this is what is driving the interactions I think. They think you are giving them a holiday and are upset that you aren’t, and you think they are visiting you and your family to spend time with you. It just needs to be discussed. Mothers of young children shouldn’t be expected to host child free couples for a weeks jolly, while trying to care for their family and home. It isn’t a reasonable expectation. Shorter time or more independence on their part will work.

@Itisbetter Yes, this is it.
Awful day so far with going out to lunch and I barely felt like speaking, which probably sounds ridiculous and childish, but really not feeling like it, df hasn’t even bothered to speak to me, let alone apologise.
I’m thinking of sending a lengthy text to them when they’re home, but not sure exactly what to say

What would a lengthy text achieve though? You get it off your chest but your DM has a wicked way of rewriting history so if I were you, I would just keep it cool and the next time they float the idea of visiting just say it doesn't suit and that last time it was quite stressful but they're welcome to stay in the Airbnb nearby.

Letter bombs via text very rarely work in the sender's favour.

What do you want him to apologise for?

I think let all the emotions settle for a few days before doing anything. A text might not seem like such a good idea then, or maybe it will- you know best how your parents will react. But I’d try to wait till the initial hurt & disappointment have eased off.

@Itisbetter Basically ignoring me and acting off with me for the last few days when what did I do wrong? 🤷🏻‍♀️

You can control what you say and do, and to a certain extent what dd experiences but expecting particular behaviour or response is a recipe for upset. Deal with now. Get them launched homeward, and get ready for next week. Focus on the things that will make that successful for all of you. If your parents want to discuss their disappointment at your hosting/parenting/child then think about how true what they are saying is and if they are being fair. You can fix the hosting by not doing it or minimising the length of stay. I would suggest gently that you don’t want to listen to criticism of your parent any more than they would benefit from critique of theirs. You could explain that nursery/school have no concerns about dd and that perhaps she was reacting to the situation not an underlying deficit and suggesting something was “wrong” with her when they themselves were sulking/shaking/weeping is unkind at best.

Always keep in mind that you aren’t going to say the perfect cutting thing to snap them out of their nonsense. Relationships rarely work that way. What you can do is think hard about how you’d like it to be and work towards that.

Don’t write a long text or letter. It won’t work. Been there, got the t-shirt. They’ll ignore it but hold a grudge, get more upset or they’ll pick it to pieces. I imagine your dad will do the 1st, your mum, the 2nd and not sure if they’ll do the 3rd to your face but it sounds likely they will between themselves.

Right now, you’re incredibly reactive and hyper vigilant of everything your parents do and say, especially your mum. Up until now, you’ve managed this by doing exactly what they say. I get it. This is what I did with my brother and wife before going nc. Anything else doesn’t work. You’re huffed at and criticised, even if they move the goal posts and plans because you cannot immediately fit in. Your parents also sound like brother and sil in that they talk about you as though you’re subhuman and by extension your dd, are competitive and so forth. None of is normal at all, walking on eggshells. I get it. I lived it.

Well done for managing to have a calm talk with your mum. I struggled with this one hugely. I think right now, you just need to ride this out until they leave. You’ve said what needed to be said. Pretend you haven’t noticed the frostiness. In fact, you and your dad are both having a similar reaction. Both pissed off for different reasons. Neither wants to talk. So he feels like you do, whether he’s justified or not is a different story.

What I’d do when they have gone is get some therapy if there’s any spare money as that will help bolster you. If not, keep talking on here anyway. Then look up narcissism and triangulation, previously mentioned. Also, look into boundaries and parentification. There are two types of parentification. One, where you’re expected to do physical stuff for your parents and act as their parents or the parent to siblings even though you’re a child. The other is emotional, where you are trained to look after your parents emotional needs. I was parentified and like you, hyper vigilant as a result. Two things cured me to a large extent. Firstly, therapy, secondly illness. I just can’t do stuff anymore and am disabled.

Not long now and you’ll have your house back. And to quote Caroline Bingley in Pride and Prejudice, it will be ‘so refreshing to have one’s house back to one self again’ or something along those lines.

I just think you had totally different expectations and are both feeling let down. It’s ok. Just work out how you want to manage going forward.

Thank you for all your help and advice, just told it all to Dh as they’re now gone and he’s gobsmacked by it all. He’s also mentioned some things from my past though (met him when we were late teenagers) it’s also brought back a lot of childhood things too

My dh is like that too. Doesn’t say anything unless prompted. Now that you’ve recognised there’s a problem, you can do something about it.

@Mummyoflittledragon What can I/should I do?

Well, having read all your posts and a lot of the replies, it does sound that your parents may have unrealistic expectations for a visit to a family with a 4 year old. Flexibility is key.

However, I also think that your gut is telling you that something is not quite right with your DD's development/behaviour and you see a significant change. I know lots of posters will tell you horror stories of meltdowns etc with their children and assume that this is "normal" but, it not "normal" for a 4 year old to need such an effort to keep them relatively calm and well behaved. Of course, every young child can get overtired but once they've had a good night's sleep they usually are completely fine. So, if the tantrums are on a regular basis then I think you need to listen to your instinct and perhaps speak to your GP.

I didn’t mean there was a problem with your dh and communication. I meant mine doesn’t readily share his opinions on my family iyswim and that now you recognise there’s an issue with your family and that your dh has verified it, you know you’ve got an ally and can work from there. But well, my dh isn’t a great communicator now you come to mention it and I’m far from perfect too!

I have previously said what I think you should do for yourself. Ie therapy if you can, read up on triangulation, narcissism, parentificaion and work on boundaries. And use your dh to help you put up boundaries if you can, work on the premise that your little family comes first. That is what you need to nurture. Your parents are likely to strop because it’s not what they’re used to and you may feel the need to people please. But come back here, chat, talk to your dh, friends if there’s anyone level headed you could call on and so forth. I find the only friend I can really sound off on that score has been through shit herself. The ones, who’ve not faced real difficulties just don’t get it at all.

How has your dd been since they left?

@Mummyoflittledragon Thank you 🙏
She’s been great, much calmer (she has had more sleep though)
I’m feeling this weird nervousness as my dad WhatsApped on the plane home last night saying thanks for everything (he always does this) it came up on my phone but I didn’t open to look at it to see properly until this evening. I did this deliberately as I really couldn’t be bothered with it. I sent a brief reply-some laughing faces to what he posted and kisses in return. I was going to not reply but felt weird about that. Just thinking about it and feel a bit odd tbh