Dm said she’s never seen a child as bad before as Dd

[Allweatewasspaghettihoops]

Parents are here to stay, Dd just 4 has always been energetic but not hugely difficult in behaviour. Since around March, we saw some changes and the last few months she’s having fairly bad meltdowns and is speaking not that nicely and being impatient and shouting/crying a lot, plus wanting things her own way.
Shes been over excited because they’re here and has also had less sleep. We’ve been going out everyday and today we got up as usual and went to get ready. As I was doing her hair, she completely lost it, screaming and crying and saying I was doing it wrong, each time I kept trying to do what I thought she was asking, I was getting it more wrong and she was getting more upset.
I tried really hard to keep my patience, but I admit I felt out of control and just could not calm her down at all. I ended up sitting away a little on the bed and crying in frustration.
Dm came up looking really shaky and upset and almost crying and asked if I was ok and all was ok, she put her hand on my shoulder.
I ended up being able to calm her down and we lay cuddled together. I was so emotionally drained and feel like I’m walking on eggshells sometimes with her behaviour.
This afternoon I was talking to dm and she was saying none of us were anything like that and that she’s worked in a nursery and never seen a child get like that…ever 😢
She says I should go to the doctor with her asap.
I agree that this mornings episode was v intense and probably the worst I’ve had as she looked like something was driving her and she literally couldn’t stop. But I’m feeling really shocked and upset by the way Dm has described it all and I’m really worried now.
Does this sound really terrible for a just turned 4 year old?

Even before the meltdown, at a cafe the other day when my dad was talking about kids kicking plane seats, running around etc. I said to him that obviously I wouldn’t allow that but that now I’m a parent, I see things differently and feel for parents letting them have 10 minutes playing on an iPad whilst the parents eat etc as it’s so hard and everyone needs a break.
I said how I struggle with Dd etc and he said quietly ‘It is what it is’ ‘She is the way she is’ I really feel they think she’s really badly behaved or something
My mum seems to think maybe adhd as she says she plays from morning until bedtime and doesn’t really sit down much, she does sometimes but hasn’t whilst they’ve been here

@jannier Do you think I should take her to pre school tomorrow or give her a break because of it all?
It’s basically gymnastics then long playtime the time she’s there tomorrow, she’ll be even more tired

Well it sounds like your parents may need to reel it in a bit. Just remember YOU know your DD better than them. They are your parents but you are her parent. They’re probably not used to the chaos of living day in day out with a 4 year old! I mean 4 year olds have loads of energy, I don’t know one 4 year old who isn’t totally full of beans. Go easy on yourself. I actually think you might feel better once they go home!

I agree with @Fucket 's advice. They can hear no. They can wait sometimes. They can apologise. She is no longer "get majesty the baby."

Her, not get.

I think you're spot on here.

My second child almost broke me between 3-5. She had the most awful tantrums (never at 2 btw), uncontrollable sobbing, screaming etc.

Some things that helped:

Offer two (acceptable to you) choices eg. the red shoes or the wellies. Really pick your battles carefully.

If your child is crying uncontrollably (like mine did) she may be scared by her own lack of control. Just be with her, say I am here when you want a cuddle and nothing else.
Sometimes mine would howl into her bed and I'd leave her with the door open and she'd either fall asleep or find me once calmed down. Anything I said would have escalated the situation.

Lastly, minimise triggers, give plenty of notice of transitioning from one activity to another, anticipate hunger, feeling the cold/heat and tiredness.

I can remember saying to my DM I can't take any more of this when she was 5 after a really bad meltdown and she slowly grew so much better after that.

(Still feisty at 11 though...and here come the teen years!)

If your DD has just started preschool she will be knackered from holding it together there, learning new things, new people and new rules. Plus if your parents are there that's another change to her routine.

Oh god and yes, hair brushing and hair washing! DD2 hated me doing her hair... So I let her brush it instead. It was ok.
Washing it was a complete nightmare at home, so I'd do it after we went swimming instead 🤷.

Hmmme, well my mum called my kids 'feral' when dc2 was 4/5 and DC 2 18 months. She too trained in early years/was a teacher, but forgets how awful my brother was AND that she was an authoritarian. DC tbh were high energy and fairly reactive but ultimately probably not diagnosable but just are one end of a spectrum. Time will tell op and only you will know if you need outside assessment/support. However just know that other people's perceptions of what is within 'normal' are often very narrow

That depends on how tiered she is in the morning....a break for both of you may be better than staying home together. But I'd be getting bed time sorted and look at the good advice you've been given on handling a tantrum. The kicking off so you keep trying to do what she's demanding to her satisfaction doesn't sound great. Id be saying I understand your upset and we can talk about that when you calm down mummy's here for a cuddle when your ready. Encouraging slow deep breathing if shes calm enough or giving her a space to be calm.

Your reaction sounds unusual OP 'was so emotionally drained and feel like I’m walking on eggshells sometimes with her behaviour'
Imagine

1. It was a one off
2. Your mum puts you on edge
3. Your child's behavior is unusually provoking
4. There's a lot of other stuff going on for you and you don't have infinite patience for your 4yo right now.

Hope it works out. Doubt doctor will help as they would want to know how school goes and what they think

i think your parents aren’t very nice to either of you. Would she better at nursery or home with the atmosphere.

@Tigofigo awesome advice

So it doesn’t sound like adhd or something more?

The thing that worked for me was discussing expectations and consequences before any event

I would say we are going to x and any screaming or fighting we are going straight home

if you come when I call and play nicely we will get a drink on the way home - or whatever

Make or clear - this also prevents you from making consequences you don’t follow when stressed out

Everyones clear!

With the unexpected you need to walk away and explain - I really wanted to get your hair right but I can’t concentrate when you are screaming. I’ll come back when you are calm - practice

All kids are over whelmed with long staying guests! It’s totally different and they don’t have the same freedoms! And yes 4 year olds are hard work.

Sounds like grandma is a tad melodramatic to me. Shaky? Was she worried her 4yo GDD was going to throw her mother down the stairs?

My MIL made a comment about our DD 2.5 recently also, along the lines or "is she always like this or is it just because I'm here". Its hard not to be offended when they make comments but I agree that they forget what it's like

I think it depends how often these meltdowns are happening.
DD was very violent at home, and was dx with autism. It has been utterly physically and emotionally exhausting.
My dad nicknamed DD 'asbo'

Sounds just like my DS who is the same age. DM says just the same stuff. They forget what we were like. Don't stress about it.

Agree. Mine all had terrible tantrums and we found that if we couldn't head them off with distraction, the best thing was to let them get on with it. Kids need to learn to self soothe, and that's not going to happen if you engage in the drama or go out of your way to empathise/soothe them. They need to learn that their rage won't get them what they want, but that it also doesn't hurt the person who is aimed at, and won't damage their relationship with you.

From what I read you have an over tired, over stimulated, out of routine four year old who is the age to start pushing boundaries?

Sort out her sleep/exercise so its better, dont over stimulate her (ie rushing at the last minute to get ready) and things should start to feel calmer. Focus on the basics.

My neighbour is 4 and is testing the boundaries apparently.

But what I came to add, our parents are great but things really have changed since they parented a 4 year old.

I don’t think your daughter’s behaviour sounds unusual. My own 4 year old does this and other friends have told me theirs do too. My child’s nursery described him as very well behaved - he never behaved like that there and I expect that’s the same for a lot of kids. Home is where they feel safe to let it all out. So I am not sure if you DM’s experience is totally relevant.

Nobody on MN can diagnose your DD, or can tell you for certain that your DD doesn't have a particular "syndrome" (for want of a better word - like your mum, I haven't been the parent of a young child for a long while now, but that's what it was called when my DC were small). To judge purely from what you've said, your DD sounds like a very standard 4 yo whose routine has been thrown off balance. She's also probably in some subtle way reacting to you being thrown off kilter by your mum's comments, too.

If your mum is seriously feeling shaky because of a small child's tantrum, though, I would very strongly suspect that she is the problem rather than your DD.

She's over tired from starting pre-school, and may be feeling anxious about going there anyway. Children get a surge of hormones around 4 and become like mini teenagers for a while. If you're really worried, speak to your HV or the doc. I would take your DM's point of view with a pinch of salt