Dm said she’s never seen a child as bad before as Dd

[Allweatewasspaghettihoops]

Parents are here to stay, Dd just 4 has always been energetic but not hugely difficult in behaviour. Since around March, we saw some changes and the last few months she’s having fairly bad meltdowns and is speaking not that nicely and being impatient and shouting/crying a lot, plus wanting things her own way.
Shes been over excited because they’re here and has also had less sleep. We’ve been going out everyday and today we got up as usual and went to get ready. As I was doing her hair, she completely lost it, screaming and crying and saying I was doing it wrong, each time I kept trying to do what I thought she was asking, I was getting it more wrong and she was getting more upset.
I tried really hard to keep my patience, but I admit I felt out of control and just could not calm her down at all. I ended up sitting away a little on the bed and crying in frustration.
Dm came up looking really shaky and upset and almost crying and asked if I was ok and all was ok, she put her hand on my shoulder.
I ended up being able to calm her down and we lay cuddled together. I was so emotionally drained and feel like I’m walking on eggshells sometimes with her behaviour.
This afternoon I was talking to dm and she was saying none of us were anything like that and that she’s worked in a nursery and never seen a child get like that…ever 😢
She says I should go to the doctor with her asap.
I agree that this mornings episode was v intense and probably the worst I’ve had as she looked like something was driving her and she literally couldn’t stop. But I’m feeling really shocked and upset by the way Dm has described it all and I’m really worried now.
Does this sound really terrible for a just turned 4 year old?

@NewYorkLassie What could it mean? It’s been since around 3.6 to now

I asked her what was wrong, we had cuddles etc, she only ever says she doesn’t know…there doesn’t seem to be a reason to her?

OP, that's because she's 4.

In the nicest possible way, I wouldn't be taking her for drives etc. If you had more than one child, you'd be unlikely to be packing them all into the car so you could take one of them for a drive. She's getting too much attention, and you're (again in the nicest possible way) sort of expecting her to be able to give you adult answers to your questions.

She's a young child who can't really make sense of her rushes of feeling. She needs to be allowed to express whatever it is, within reason (i.e. she can't hurt anyone or break things), and you need to accept that sometimes she will behave "badly"/irrationally, because she's a child who's trying to make sense of her world.

You need to make it very clear to your DD that you're calmly in charge. It sounds as if the boundaries are becoming blurred by your fear that your mum is judging you and her.

I do have a child with AS, btw, and it's a bit annoying when any tantrum/spirited behaviour is said to be due to an ASD. I don't think it's helpful to the parent or the child, either.

This behaviour sounds more extreme than normal and laying down with DD, hanging around while it's going on and feeling frightened - these are likely to make the situation worse. I'd be a bit more matter of fact and resolute.

Most tantrums require an audience - don't indulge this or try and placate - just leave her at it and get on briskly with your own tasks. If this behaviour continues definitely check with the GP as I saw similar in a friend's DD and they have had years of it but no diagnosis. The friend is an exceptionally kind person but she did a lot of hovering and trying to placate her DDs rages and I suspect it didn't help at all.

What I'm trying to say is - you're doing okay.

I wasn't there, but from what you describe it sounds like your mum is making you more anxious than you perhaps need to be. You're heaping expectations on yourself and your DD.

Try to just chill out, step back, take a deep breath and let it go. I know that's easier said than done ... your first task is to look after yourself, then you can give consideration to your DD.

Honestly, I could have written this about me and my DD4. She has always been very active and energetic. My parents said that I was exactly the same though, so I've never really thought much of it. I do think your DM is being a bit dramatic. 4 is a hard age, they have so many emotions that they're learning to deal with and it sounds like the last few days have probably been over-stimulating for her with your parents around, so maybe you could try and have some time alone with DD? Do some calmer activities, do some painting, baking, go to the cinema?

@Flobbertybillop I do think my mum seems too rigid in things with her, she’s a kind person but I’ve noticed things. For example, last time they stayed, I was cooking and Dd was playing with the toilet roll, not ideal no, but she was using it to make a road for her cars to go on, I let things like that go as she enjoys it and can just tidy up afterwards. I heard mum telling her it was naughty etc, I also see Dd looking over at Dm when she does certain things, so I think she’s giving her a *look

This is really excellent advice. As well as Big little feelings I recommend looking at Aha parenting website by Dr Laura Markham, and listening to the Unruffled podcast by Janet Lansbury.
Your daughter doesn't sound like she needs medical attention at all, sounds like a 4 year old with big feelings that she isn't able to regulate yet. Children's brains don't develop regulation or impulse control until quite late on. It feels like the worst thing in the world when you have conflict like that I know - I have a now five year old who has a lot of BIG feelings but only with me.... There are always things triggering the behaviour and the feelings that often aren't even linked to the situation apparently causing them in the moment. So your daughter's reaction to the "wrong" hairstyle wasn't really about the hairstyle. Have a read of the stuff mentioned above. There's so many great resources out there to understand child behaviour, and it really helps. You're doing a great job by caring so much, don't beat yourself up x
Something to start with - www.ahaparenting.com/guide/preschoolers

In the nicest possible way, I wouldn't be taking her for drives etc.

I know what you mean, but I think that removing a child from a room/situation for a bit, getting a change of scene, fresh air, etc, can be really helpful. Not to make a big thing of anything, just to move the whole scenario on a bit rather than dwelling.

@KangFang What do you think is wrong?

@Spicycurry I'm not saying be super strict and harsh on them. I'm not super strict. Just being very clear what is expected of them and where the line is.

I absolutely would not have running about in cafes. They'd be told once to sit down and that would be that. If they didn't, I'd take them home without eating. They'd get a boring cheese sandwich rather than the cake we would have had. Natural consequence. They can't behave as required so they don't get to stay. Funnily enough, they quickly develop the ability to sit still when cake is on the line.

Same with the hair. Can't speak like a civilised human being? Not doing it then, walk away, I don't get screamed at and just won't have it. Talk to me politely or I'll walk away and not listen to you. Natural consequence. Won't get her hair done.

I dont think you need to go to the GP yet, but I'd definitely talk to my local children's centre. They can help unpick behaviours and help work out if there is a reason to the behaviour or if there's potentially something else going on. They're great as a support network and their family support work is great.

@Notanotherwindow Thats what I feel we constantly do at the moment

@goodnightsugarpop I am less disciplined than usual as it feels awkward in front of everyone all the time and I’m trying to make us all have a nice time

Your mum is from an era where children and parenting were very different. Bad behaviour and/or tantrums were not tolerated, and certainly not rewarded with cuddles and attention. No meant no, and it was said far more often. Nicey nicey parenting didn't exist. Your mum probably still expects children to be like that, but they are now growing up in a. very different setting.

I agree with this 100%.

OP you have mentioned you have been out every day and today's trip was a visit to the shopping centre and a cafe.. perhaps DD just needs time at home to play and not be taken out every day?

I'm sure your parents can head out by themselves without you both. Gives everyone a good break too.

I wouldn't be doing anything until the grandparents had gone and you'd had a week or two back to normal. I'd bet she's 100% calmer then.

Everyone talks about the terrible two’s, nobody mentions the effing awful four’s. Both my boys were great at 2, I thought we’d gotten away with it. Then they turned four. Nightmare times! They were easy teenagers and are lovely young men now. But 4…

The Fucking Fours. I wish I could forget.

Another saying @Tigofigo advice is excellent.

It seems you've got into a cycle of everything being a little bit too fraught. She won't be able to tell you why she's feeling upset and tantrumy, she's 4 not an adult.

I think a lot is going on for your daughter this week. Her routine is being changed randomly to accommodate your parents. She isn't sleeping as well. She's getting less 1-1 time with you? Discipline is different. She can pick up on your stress and anxiety. Even food may be different too?

IF she does have something underlying like ASD then these are huge for her because her stability is shaken. And even if it is a 4 year old having a tantrum then these things are going to effect her.

As adults if our routine changed, our sleeping pattern, the people we spend time with, knowing that someone you're extremely close with is anxious, it would knock us out of sorts. I don't think we allow kids enough credit to be honest.

4 is a hard age. Mine were always fighting for control at that age. It’s like they suddenly become a bit more switched on and want some agency.

She’s due in pre school tomorrow morning, after today I’m just tempted to give it a miss and give her a calm day or should I take her?

My 4 year old DD can get like this when my mum comes to stay. My DM even said that I shouldn’t worry because DD is clearly “showing off” when grandma is visiting! My DD can also have quite a fiery temper in her own house and be way more bolshy than she’d be anywhere else!
I'm sure DM didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. Sometimes grandparents just forget what a young child can be like day in day out. I’d say unless preschool have flagged anything I wouldn’t worry too much. I’ve had to get firmer with DD during her meltdowns but also made more of a conscious effort to really note her good behaviour or when she’s being kind so she knows it’s not going unnoticed either.

I think it sounds quite standard for a 4 year old🤷🏼‍♀️…..tantrums are quite normal for a while yet for many in my experience (& that’s not just my own kids). My 13 year old is STILL capable of throwing a tantrum (which I generally ignore as best I can!!). Stop expecting her to be thoroughly rational - it’s going to take a while yet for that to materialise!!

I’d take her. Absolutely.

Shes in a new preschool coping with changes.
Shes overtired and over stimulated becouse your out all day.
Shes out of routine.
She has visitors in her home....most of us would find that exhausting as adults.
29 years in childcare says to me look at that first. Get her back to sleeping properly....might be a challenge now but stick to it. Give her some down time instead of being out all the time and see how she settles.