Dm said she’s never seen a child as bad before as Dd

[Allweatewasspaghettihoops]

Parents are here to stay, Dd just 4 has always been energetic but not hugely difficult in behaviour. Since around March, we saw some changes and the last few months she’s having fairly bad meltdowns and is speaking not that nicely and being impatient and shouting/crying a lot, plus wanting things her own way.
Shes been over excited because they’re here and has also had less sleep. We’ve been going out everyday and today we got up as usual and went to get ready. As I was doing her hair, she completely lost it, screaming and crying and saying I was doing it wrong, each time I kept trying to do what I thought she was asking, I was getting it more wrong and she was getting more upset.
I tried really hard to keep my patience, but I admit I felt out of control and just could not calm her down at all. I ended up sitting away a little on the bed and crying in frustration.
Dm came up looking really shaky and upset and almost crying and asked if I was ok and all was ok, she put her hand on my shoulder.
I ended up being able to calm her down and we lay cuddled together. I was so emotionally drained and feel like I’m walking on eggshells sometimes with her behaviour.
This afternoon I was talking to dm and she was saying none of us were anything like that and that she’s worked in a nursery and never seen a child get like that…ever 😢
She says I should go to the doctor with her asap.
I agree that this mornings episode was v intense and probably the worst I’ve had as she looked like something was driving her and she literally couldn’t stop. But I’m feeling really shocked and upset by the way Dm has described it all and I’m really worried now.
Does this sound really terrible for a just turned 4 year old?

OP, two things you have said stick
out for me.

I admit I Do sometimes struggle to stop her/calm her down and it does scare me*

My mum came upstairs she says to see if she could help as she says it sounded so awful downstairs, she was really quite upset and shaky

Your daughters behaviour leaves you scared and this incident left your mother upset and shaky.

That doesn’t sound like normal 4 year old behaviour to me.

At that age our Dc always played up when the GPs were staying ... then behaved much better when they were back in our usual routine!! 🙄🙄

I wouldn't worry too much. Your mum sounds like she's overreacting and making things worse!

See how things go when they leave.

She has said this week and before that Dds behaviour is probably different/worse because they’re here, which is true. But she was just so strong with saying this today and she’s not one to interfere etc, she is a bit too soft though. She said to book an appointment and to say that we’re *Really worried about Dds behaviour. I admit I have been worried as in the meltdowns seem to be much worse the last few months, but she was never one to be like this as a toddler etc, she was so so easy in comparison, so I’m not sure if it’s just a phase or something more 🤷🏻‍♀️
I feel like I’m doing a very shit job of it all at the moment though! She’s frequently said I’m not strict enough etc

From what you've written here she does sound really rude and badly behaved and I wouldn't have it from a 4 year old but this is just a snapshot. Only you know if today was an outlier and she's normally a lot better or if she was overtired/hangry etc.

Other things you've written do make me lean a little towards the GP point of view as I absolutely would not and never have allowed running around in cafes etc that's just really poor parenting, 4 is more than old enough to be expected to sit at a table for half hour but again you haven't said that you do or don't allow this so I'm not sure which way to vote tbh.

No, not normal.
Get some help.

I'd suggest you take DD out on your own. Ask her what she'd like to do just you and her then talk to her. Ask her what is causing her to get angry and upset. Tell her you are worried and it makes you sad when she's unhappy. She may tell you what it is if she knows. If she doesn't know then the answer is its likely a phase.

Having your mum and dad around may be stressful for her because there are other adults in tge house and you're going out every day etc.

A little quiet time might help you both.

Sending a big hug x

@NewYorkLassie Recently, things have become a bit harder and her meltdowns do feel different and more out of control…we’ve not really been used to it. I’ve felt sort of scared as in, that I felt powerless and like I wasn’t sure if I could calm her down, but did in the end. I’m not sure, it’s hard to explain. It’s just typical that she happened she witness/hear probably the worst one she’s ever had this morning

I think sometimes we forget how hard it is for kids to regulate themselves and their emotions and how close to the surface those are at all times. I also think your dd has had loads of changes of routine in the past few weeks with starting preschool and having relatives staying. Her wee mind is processing huge amounts of learning from preschool and she's bound to be more tired etc plus now wants to stay up later to see the visitors. No wonder it's easier when you're just the 2 of you.

Dont take this the wrong way....You all sound a bit overly dramatic to be honest. You do your dd hair, just do it and at age 4 there shouldn't be any say in the style or whatever it is to be honest. When my mum did my hair I wasn't given options! If she wasn't happy it's "well it looks lovely and I'm going to get myself ready now..." and you leave the room.

You crying and having that reaction your dd feeds off it. Your mum then coming up and you all lying together "drained", again dd can see and feel all that. She's probably also tired, out of routine and could do with not going out for one day perhaps. I think you and your mum are making it bigger than it needs to be.

My mum says things like this about everyone, she's very critical. She used to say horrible thigs about my children's behaviour until I angrily told her that I was fed up with her bitching about them and that she must be the problem because they don't behave badly with me! I think she FINALLY realised she'd gone too far. She praises my parenting now but it's too late to save our relationship.

I think it's down to two things:

1. She's forgotten what it's like
2. She's a bitch

wouldn’t have it

I have had to review my own thoughts on these sorts of comments. I have seen a lot on MN over my time here: mostly in sentences which say things like boundaries, consequences, etc.

My own DS isn’t two yet, but I have found the more I dig my heels in the worse his behaviour is. It’s often the answer on here: be stricter, be sterner, regardless of age.

for some children, it really doesn’t work. And I am not sure it works for any children really - I suppose it does in that you get the behaviour you want, but in terms of actual understanding I do not know.

I have found with my own DS that the more sternly I have responded to things the more likely he is to respond with anger, frustration and distress. It helps no one. I’m not going to put us both through it to tick someone else’s boxes of good parenting.

OP I’d be concerned they are getting worse at 4. Most kids are getting better by that age.

My mum said horrible things about my kids. My kids are bloody brilliant, I get compliments about how lovely they are regularly, now polite and kind.
I’ve learnt to brush it off now, she was very nice to me either.
is she normally like this, or is it a one off and she’s concerned?

Great post from @Tigofigo . I think there is a lot to unpick here in terms of both your and your Mum’s upset over these emotions of your daughter’s.
It’s hard to say whether your daughter’s behaviour is ‘normal’ or not at this age - ironically my NT DD threw some wild tantrums around 3/4 whereas ND DS was a very chilled fellow - but I do think some emotional regulation strategies for both you and DD would be positive. If you like podcasts then Janet Lansbury is very good on holding boundaries calmly.

@Dibbydoos After the incident, I lay down on the bed calmly with Dd with a little music in an attempt for us to sleep as she was yawning whilst screaming/crying so much. She couldn’t sleep and kept saying she wanted to go where we originally were going to go (shopping centre, cafes etc) there was no way I’d attempt that so I said we’d take a little drive (just her and I) in hopes of her falling asleep as she sometimes does in the car. I also just wanted to get out of the house on our own and just diffuse things. I said to my parents that we were going for a drive as she was tired etc and dad was saying shouldn’t she stay in if tired. But I knew if she was just in all day with them sat there it would be a nightmare!
I asked her what was wrong, we had cuddles etc, she only ever says she doesn’t know…there doesn’t seem to be a reason to her?

I have 3 kids and age 4 was the very worse age. I found each of them extremely challenging at that age. They would also be spectacularly awful in-front of grandparents 🙈 You say she’s just started preschool so is adapting to the change in routine and was also under pressure having grandparents stay over. I would see how things go as she settles at preschool.

I do think it's better to walk away for dramatics, if you feed into them and give her extra attention they may only get worse. Just say you are not dealing with her when she's like that and if she carries on, walk away.

I say this as a parent to three autistic children who are very calm and have not had meltdowns since toddlerhood.

I’d go to the GP, as they might want to ‘watch and wait’ for a while, see if things get better/worse. Even if they start the ball rolling looking as ASD assessment- it takes years. It’s a loooooong process. I think get things moving and hopefully ……hopefully things will get better and you might not need it. id maybe read up on autism in girls too - see if you can see any other signs (ie sensory differences). If it’s autism rather than needing firmer boundaries - then it’s a different way of dealing with this. My son (age 6) is autistic and for a long time I tried to be firmer etc …,it didn’t work, his behaviour was because he couldn’t cope,

Do you think another reason DD is having these meltdowns is she's picking up on your anxiety and your desire to control her behaviour? It feels like you've got stuck in a vicious cycle where you're anxious about how she'll behave and how your parents will judge you/her, then she can feel that anxiety in you which makes her anxious too, then you try to manage the situation by either trying to control her more than usual or give in to her more than usual, and both those things make her lose it because it feels unfamiliar and like nobody is in charge. The boundaries are blurry and mummy is feeling worried and that's stressful.

I think your mum has been overly dramatic tbh - shaking and almost crying? Really?!

It sounds like your daughter was having a bit of an epic tantrum but it's no big deal, it happens. If it makes you feel any better mine was utterly vile from 3-4. It passed, he's 7 now and 99% awesome!

She sounds like she's testing your boundaries and maybe needs you to be a bit more firm with her. If she never had the terrible 2 phase, perhaps she's just having it now. Make it clear what is and isn't acceptable and pull her up on it every time.

Insist she makes it right. So if she throws something you tell her its not ok and make her pick it up. If she hits she has to say sorry to the person she hit and make it clear that she has hurt them. If she is rude, you tell her firmly not to be and that it upsets people when you are rude to them. Apologise to xyz for being rude or lose a privilege, people don't want to play with you if you will be rude to them. If she can't ask nicely then you won't do her hair as you don't like being screamed at, she'll have to have a ponytail/wear it down and lump it.

All kids do this, she might just be doing it a bit later than the norm.

@Spicycurry I think the tide is turning. I remember when my oldest was a toddler (so this is 7ish years ago) the general advice was to use punishments like the naughty step. But when my oldest was a toddler (1.5ish years ago) I got a lovely booklet from the HV about empathetic, peaceful parenting. I was so pleased as that was what I’d been doing all along - and it works so well, and I believe it to be so much better for kids.

@Valhalla17 100% agree with this

@Valhalla17 We didn’t all lie together, my mum quickly popped in then out, I was surprised with her coming in and the look on her face etc. I was crying but often can feel like that as it can be draining, but me crying isn’t massively out of sorts, Dd doesn’t generally see that.
Everyone was waiting downstairs and I was just trying to get her ready as quickly as possible but without trying to cause her to get all cranky as she often takes a while to get ready and out of the door now. I’m not generally so indulgent with her hairstyles, I suppose I try to keep things *Nice because my parents are staying

A 4 year old has EPIC tantrums - yes, this happens. It sounds like you know exactly why - excitement, lack of sleep, disruption - she's just recently started nursery, too? So lots and lots on her mind.

Check the simple things - thirst, hunger, tiredness, overstimulation. All of which are fairly straightforward to address.

I found a good book was 'simplicity parenting', which helped for a child that got over-wrought.

Also - dial back expectations. Don't try to force your child to do things when they're struggling. If it's too much for them, just go for a shorter time. Make quiet breaks - taking your DD out for a drive was a great idea. Exercise, fresh air, always helps.

Then check if she's learning how to squash her feelings/behave at nursery, she may well just need a big hard cry to let it all out at the end of the day. If she doesn't get the chance to do this, she may act out in different ways - rage, meltdowns, etc.