"All men cheat, you just never find out about it"

[Maryfast]

I'm part of a mixed friendship group who have been friends since school. We went on a night out Saturday night and my partner works away (we've been together 4 years and bought a house last year). He tends to work away for 3 weeks and then be home for 2 weeks.

Anyway, friends were asking how he was and conversation soon turned to how some would never do a relationship that entails being far apart from each other for certain amounts of time. Then conversation turned to trust and I was saying how I can never imagine he'd cheat on me and how lovely he is.

That"s when one my male friends made the comment on the thread title, followed by how all the males he know outside our friendship group have cheated but all the friends never say anything.

I don't believe this to be true at all and I've never imagined my partner cheating. Does anyone else believe in the view that "men have an innate ability to cheat?"

I think it's nonsense

I’m not convinced women are more naturally non-monogamous - I mean, literally centuries of effort in just about every country in the world has gone into repressing female sexuality to discourage women from even exploring sex outside of marriage until very recently. If women weren’t socialised to believe that sex = love, that sex is dirty, that having multiple sex partners makes a woman a slut, that women’s sexual needs are secondary to men’s, I reckon the view of and desire to be non-monogamous would be pretty even across the sexes.

The reason why humans (in most cultures) are socialised into monogamy is because that's the model that works best for women and men, because most people (on the evidence) do not cheat: they, women and men, want to stick around and raise their children in families.

A lot of posts on this thread are a mixture of anecdote and unsubstantiated grand theorising, but there isn't a shred of evidence to support them. If men were really as people describe, the best model would be something more like other animals: the man sows his oats and clears off, leaving the mother to bring up the child in a female-run commune like in Antonia's Line. It's a nonsense. There's no sign that society is going on that direction or that we are inauthentic the way we are now.

The reality, as far as anyone can establish, is that most women and men never cheat and the proportions who do a roughly the same.

I think a kind of serial monogamy suits humans best. I agree, generally, men want to stick around to raise their children (although some seem to think that doesn't require fidelity) but that's not the same thing as a partner for life. I think we need a different partner with different characteristics for different life stages.

I think the only way adultery coud be prevented is by means of science and laws.

The combination of a science based indicator that someone has cheated and the law based theory of penalisation if found guilty of breaking the vows of marriage.

Of course this would seriously limit the amount of people entering marriage (I think) but it would emphasise the importance of the family unit and union and commitment of having children.

Only very serious candidates should apply. 😅

Would it happen - probably not, probably completely achievable in a scientific capacity, but legally, naw men would never pass laws and fund anything which benefitted women.

Most people don't restrict themselves to sex with one person because they have no interest in sex with anyone else from the day they set eyes on their partner; but because the potential consequences of straying from monogamy in terms of hurt caused, losses risked are too great.

Good point.

But the vast majority of things we form societal norms from are just constructs to be honest. We place varying levels of value on these norms. Like stealing from the stationary cupboard, speeding, assault, fraud etc. The only thing that prevents us doing most things are consequences but many people weigh it up depending on their values and may take risks anyway. Infidelity is just another one of those things as everyone has a threshold.

I think it's virtually impossible to live a life where you don't find others attractive and sometimes this extends to us feeling like we could/would like to have more. I think this is completely natural.

But believe it or not, some of us take these constructs like morals quite seriously. After all, if we don't have morals and integrity, what else is left?

All of this is just based on who you ask. Most people in stable relationships wong be asked. Always remember that mumsnet contains a large proportion of people who've been in poor relationships.

There was a report that between 20 to 30 percent of children weren't the biological child of the 'father'. However this was based on cases where dna testing had been requested, I'd like to hope that the proportion would be considerably less when expanded to other parents. I don't believe women are quite that bad, it's just the grouoing that you take your numbers from.

One of the more boring reasons I'm monogamous is that I'm not much of a people person. It's another reason I don't want loads of children - multiplies the number of ILs I'd potentially have in the future.

One reliable, safe partner is enough for me at once. I don't like men enough to want two of them!

(I'm not wildly antisocial, but some people seem to collect friends as a hobby. I'm happy with the three dozen or so I've got)

@thecatsthecats

Three dozen friends is A LOT!
What made you think that’s little?
I would look at you as someone who collects friends as a hobby 😮😆

I was going to say exactly this!

Agree with this. I cheated, and one of the worst things about cheating is the fear of being found out. If you could guarantee that nobody else would ever find out, there would be no reason not to, really, should you have the energy to go down that route.

I used to think that good men don't cheat. Well i still think that. But more men than you realise are not good men. Even ones that look from the outside to be decent family guys. Particularly once the normality of family life starts. Its very very frequent especially when they think they can get away with it. And they tell their friends.

Even if you could guarantee no one else would ever fine out how on earth could you live with yourself and your conscience? I know I couldn't. I can't even lie to DH about how much an item of clothing cost

No it's not, and no they don't.

I know of 1 man who's told me he's cheated. That's it.

I've never cheated. Have I had the opportunity? Yes. Do I like the idea of sex with a woman other than my DW? Absolutely. Could I have got away with it? Probably. But I still haven't done it. Too much aggravation, I wouldn't want it on my conscience, and it's wrong.

I've never cheated.

Anecdata of one.

My anecdata include: Almost every man attached to or married to any of my friends has tried his luck. Numerous married men I encounter in business and otherwise have really pushed their luck, or made bold suggestions, or pursued me relentlessly. All my ex-boyfriends, after marriage, tried to restart things with me. Most of the clients in my old friend's brothel (I know!) were married men.

There a lot of anecdata on this thread "proving" the opposite.

Are you Marilyn Monroe? Men simply can't resist 🫠

No normal man I know would "push their luck" with their wife's friend 🤷‍♀️

I think people can be very blinkered and assume other people have all the same kinds of experiences they do themselves.

It's bs, lots of men don't ever cheat.

@ComtesseDeSpair I think this is what would ultimately happen if non-monogamy was socially acceptable and considered just another lifestyle or relationship model. People would have the freedom to discuss what works for them and develop a relationship which fits accordingly. Whereas as it is, non-monogamy being generally seen as some kind of deviance prevents many people for whom it would be preference from exploring it and having happier relationships all round as a result.

I don't agree with this.

There is no law that people have to be monogamous.

People have a selection of relationship styles to choose from -gay/bisexual/threesomes/swinging/open/polyamory, etc in fact there's a "lid for every pot" as they say.

What bugs me off if that people aren't honest and sign up for monogamy when it doesn't suit their relationship style.

I think all men when left to their own devices will cheat. The only thing that stop them is discipline from women. A lot of the time women during their upbringing. If they don’t have that then I genuinely can’t see a them being faithful. they just biological cannot do it.

As a few pp have said I'd be concerned why he thought that was appropriate to say during the actual conversation.

Why would he say that.
Was he getting off on putting that seed in your head.
Was it a power trip for him.

Yes men do cheat and some would if given the chance, but not all. And for generations men have brought up kids they believed to be theirs biologically, who weren't, proving women will too, but not all.

@PeppaPigsBonnet Being gay or bisexual is not a relationship style to choose from.

Your post manages to be highly offensive to both men and women. What a depressing outlook on life...

Two sources here. My mates brother and guys at work. They all work away.
And all cheat including paying for sex.
Probably not all men cheat but I do think it's a much higher proportion that some might think.

I am rather ravishing, as it happens. That has been my experience.

Probably more than 50% of men cheat and less than 50% of women cheat but I would not want to put figures on it. Men always have, women have increased in recent years