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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be gobsmacked by this

191 replies

Vodkaany1 · 10/10/2022 23:07

Was walking through our local town tonight and there was a man outside one of the local mini supermarkets who was homeless and asked if I could spare some money, I said sorry, no as I didn't have any cash on me as I rarely carry cash these days. He was stood by the cashpoint outside and said "Maybe you could draw some money out" Being I was on my own and aware of potential distraction theft (fairly large town with fairly high crime rate) I said no, I wasn't prepared to take any money out, so he asked if I could perhaps buy him some food from the mini supermarket and as I'm not completely heartless I said yes that's fine. Went in with him to pick some food and then he asked me if I would buy him a small can of alcohol with mixer - think JD & coke in a can type thing - and a scratch card!! I was utterly gob smacked and my response was to tell him he was taking the piss and I'd buy him some food and a non alcohol drink and that was it or he could have nothing. Honestly couldn't believe it! AIBU to be shocked by the sheer cfery of him? It's really put me off helping anyone else in future

OP posts:
TheOnlyBeeInYourBonnet · 11/10/2022 02:27

Vodkaany1 · 11/10/2022 00:03

Can I just point out for those having a go that it's just a drink/scratchcard - I probably wouldn't have batted an eyelid had he not already asked me to take money out of my bank when I said I had no cash on me. It's not just the things he asked for in the shop, he actually asked me to withdraw money from the ATM!

You offered not having cash up as an excuse - he took that to mean that if you had cash on you, you would give him some, so he offered a solution to the problem. If you just didn't want to give him money, you could've just said 'no'.

TheOnlyBeeInYourBonnet · 11/10/2022 02:37

Summerfun54321 · 11/10/2022 02:14

I always offer to take beggars to go and buy food instead if they ask me for money. Only 2 people have ever taken me up on it. People are naive if you think others don’t beg for drug money, some aren’t even homeless.

Look, it's your choice to give money or not, and it's completely OK not to. But don't be a patronising dick about it.

Beggars and homeless people are still people - adults with agency. If they want to be given food they'll ask for food. If they are given money, it's their decision on how best to spend it to make their lives better at that moment. That might be a bus ticket, or a cheap hostel, or socks, or a big bag of meth to numb the pain.

Maduixa · 11/10/2022 02:47

I lived for many years in a very rich city (by international standards) that has a crazy amount of homeless people (San Francisco). It is not at all strange to me, and in fact it is completely normal and commonplace, that someone asked you for alcohol or for a scratch card. But I don't know where you live; maybe it is still unusual there.

So let me give you some advice for the future which is - unfortunately, but likely - coming, where your city will be teeming with homeless and desperate people too. You say yes to what you can do and are are willing to do, and a very firm no to what you can't/won't. And yes, people you engage with on the street WILL give you shit(e) if you say no. They're desperate. No one can tell you how much you want to or should engage and what you can or cannot give. But figure it out, because no matter where you live, life is getting harsher and you're going to be asked for help more and more.

youlightupmyday · 11/10/2022 04:44

My philosophy in giving money to beggars is, if I want to I will. If they want to spend it on booze or drugs, who cares, I prob would in the same sitch.

Wdib78 · 11/10/2022 04:47

I once saw a woman ask a "homeless " man outside a supermarket if he would like a hot meal in the cafe, she let him gather his things while she went to order inside. He then gets out a mobile phone and starts texting someone.
Where does a homeless person charge a phone?
It really makes me wonder how many of these people are genuine

Soubriquet · 11/10/2022 05:01

Look, I’m one who hates alcohol. I was brought up by alcoholic parents and as a child I used to have to spend every weekend in the bloody pub.

But I wouldn’t begrudge the poor man a can of premix and a scratch card.

It would take the edge off the cold and you never know, he could have won £5 to keep him going over the next few days.

Soubriquet · 11/10/2022 05:02

Wdib78 · 11/10/2022 04:47

I once saw a woman ask a "homeless " man outside a supermarket if he would like a hot meal in the cafe, she let him gather his things while she went to order inside. He then gets out a mobile phone and starts texting someone.
Where does a homeless person charge a phone?
It really makes me wonder how many of these people are genuine

Easy..

the library, a cafe…

Soubriquet · 11/10/2022 05:05

LikeTearsInRain · 11/10/2022 01:00

I had a woman do similar to me. Said she needed money at first to cover rent for her child. When offered to buy something from the shop instead she wanted a can of cider, chocolate bar and 20 fags

She wanted money for rent…you buying food isn’t going to do that is it.

Maybe, once she had paid rent, she would have bought that stuff with what was left over.

You was just taking out the middle man

ChampagneCamping · 11/10/2022 05:08

You handled it very well, you were boundaried but supportive

TheOnlyBeeInYourBonnet · 11/10/2022 05:12

Wdib78 · 11/10/2022 04:47

I once saw a woman ask a "homeless " man outside a supermarket if he would like a hot meal in the cafe, she let him gather his things while she went to order inside. He then gets out a mobile phone and starts texting someone.
Where does a homeless person charge a phone?
It really makes me wonder how many of these people are genuine

There are numerous charities and community services offering practical support to homeless people. Just not, unfortunately, a roof over their heads or enough money to live on.

Obki · 11/10/2022 05:17

So much sanctimony in this thread.

OP, you were very nice. A bit too nice, when he came into the shop with you you should have asked him to give you space. I think you were vulnerable in that situation.

I went to buy £2 snack from KFC and a homeless man asked for something too but wanted a full
meal. My limit was £2 as that was what I was spending on myself. I just have him the £2 in the end as he said he wanted a doughnut.

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/10/2022 05:29

Why gobsmacked? Why the judgement? The man has nothing. Society has already failed him.He’s been left to fend for himself. Sounds like he has only himself to look out for. He has nothing to lose by asking for those things. Of course it’s up to you to give or not give but there’s nothing to be gobsmacked about.

AndTwoFilmsByFrancoisTruffaut · 11/10/2022 05:32

Ive bought alcohol for a homeless guy previously, a few cans of lager, I figure that if it helps spend another night on the cold streets who am I to judge. You sound kind, OP, I’m not criticising.

I can’t blv the guy didn’t thank you though. And before anyone falls over themselves to say why should he fall at your feet in gratitude, a quick thank you wouldn’t have hurt him. Being homeless doesn’t mean having no decency. The majority of homeless I have encountered have been thoroughly good people.

However, I do recall one day when I lived in Notting Hill, asked the guy who always sits outside Tesco if he needed anything, he said ‘yeah, I’ll have a coffee, but not from here, from Waitrose’… I got him his Waitrose coffee!

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/10/2022 05:33

Wdib78 · 11/10/2022 04:47

I once saw a woman ask a "homeless " man outside a supermarket if he would like a hot meal in the cafe, she let him gather his things while she went to order inside. He then gets out a mobile phone and starts texting someone.
Where does a homeless person charge a phone?
It really makes me wonder how many of these people are genuine

What?. These days you can charge your phone in most places - in McDonalds, on the bus, in a supermarket and million other places for free. So many, unfortunately, are very genuine.

Obki · 11/10/2022 05:33

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/10/2022 05:29

Why gobsmacked? Why the judgement? The man has nothing. Society has already failed him.He’s been left to fend for himself. Sounds like he has only himself to look out for. He has nothing to lose by asking for those things. Of course it’s up to you to give or not give but there’s nothing to be gobsmacked about.

And back in the real world, a strange man following me around a shop asking for alcohol and scratch cards would put me off for helping in this way again.

Wdib78 · 11/10/2022 05:37

These day yes but not ten years ago.
Assuming he could charge it, he must have been getting enough too in donations to keep it topped up

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/10/2022 05:40

Obki · 11/10/2022 05:33

And back in the real world, a strange man following me around a shop asking for alcohol and scratch cards would put me off for helping in this way again.

i completely understand that, as would I. But what I am saying is some people become indignant when a homeless person dares to want, to ask for something else that isn’t just a sandwich and coffee. They have nothing to lose by asking for something else like a scratch card or a Smirnoff ice. The person can say yes or no but it’s absolutely nothing to get gobsmacked out.

MayThe4th · 11/10/2022 05:40

I would have walked off the instant he asked me to draw money out of the cash point.

As for the people saying well if drugs is what gets him through the day…. What virtue signalling bollocks. You crack on then and support the drugs trade, the trafficking trade, everything else that it stands for, just as long as you can say you can say that it’s ok because “whatever gets him through the day.” And that’s assuming he’s genuine which there’s every chance he isn’t.

The fact that people are so gullible is the reason why begging has turned into an occupation for some. And why there are gangs sent out begging every day.

wetpebbles · 11/10/2022 05:44

You were kind to him and he pushed his luck a bit.
I stupidly offered a cf a drink in the pub once and they asked for a double whisky when they had been drinking cheap lager all night

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/10/2022 05:45

Wdib78 · 11/10/2022 05:37

These day yes but not ten years ago.
Assuming he could charge it, he must have been getting enough too in donations to keep it topped up

Ten years ago you could charge your phone in a library, at a shelter, in a cafe. You just need a charger and plug.

Funkyblues101 · 11/10/2022 05:47

What if you'd bought him a scratch card and he'd won £50 000 on it? What then?

Soubriquet · 11/10/2022 05:49

Funkyblues101 · 11/10/2022 05:47

What if you'd bought him a scratch card and he'd won £50 000 on it? What then?

Good for fucking him

I wouldn’t have hung around to see what he won anyway so I wouldn’t have known

Iwanttoholdyourham · 11/10/2022 05:51

Not you, @Vodkaany1 , but @Wdib78 's comment on mobile phones is ridiculous.

Most people in the UK weren't born homeless, but fell into rough sleeping after their lives blew up. Often it's a breakdown with family, job loss and/or addiction. There are plenty of nice middle class men for example, who get divorced, can't afford to live on their own, and don't get treated as priority by the council because they're single men and supposed to take care of themselves, and they end up on the streets.

Women with kids struggle to get council accommodation as it is, because we have a shortage of housing stock. What do you think happens to all those men who don't get council housing? I can tell you, they don't magically find somewhere else to live.

Once you're on the streets, it becomes very difficult to get yourself off the streets. And some people end up with such poor mental ill health that they struggle to live inside again, given the choice. I've volunteered in shelters before where people have come in for practical support like food and showers, then slept back outside because they're so accustomed to the noise of the city. Fixing homelessness isn't always as simple as giving everyone somewhere to stay.

If you had a handset before you were sleeping rough, why wouldn't you cling on it when you were on the streets? It's hard enough not having a fixed address - can you imagine not being contactable by mobile and email either? If you don't have a phone, you can acquire one via a homeless charity. Getting people off the streets is the ultimate goal. There are lots of hoops to jump through in the meantime, and charities will try their best to provide support in that period, and that can include giving a PAYG handset to a rough sleeper and helping to keep it topped up so they can stay connected.

Depends on the location, but where I am, you can charge your phone on the bus (riding public transport is always a great way of staying warm and safe, and relatively cheap, so that's a bonus) or in shopping centres (again, nice and warm inside, and unlikely to be attacked given the number of people and cameras around).

When it comes to giving money or things to homeless people - sure, some do take the mick. Some aren't even genuine, and are just con artists. It can be difficult to read if the person in front of you is 'real' or not, if you don't have a lot of experience in speaking to rough sleepers. Some people just try their luck. Some are gang members and/or trafficked victims, forced to beg for what they can get. Although many people on the streets are genuine, there are unfortunately some people who take advantage of that by mimicking them and playing on your heartstrings.

If you are prepared to buy something for someone, remember, dignity is important. If you buy a bunch of food and drink and give to a homeless person, they might not be able to eat it. Anyone can be homeless. That can include vegetarians, for example, who would rather be hungry than eat meat. You can still be religious on the streets. You can still have allergies. You can still have a set of values that you refuse to compromise.

Not everyone has a substance abuse problem. But for those who do, it can mess with their tastebuds. A hot drink, for example, might need no sugar in it, or it might need 10 sugars in it to be palatable. If you tell people what you are prepared to do - e.g. offer them a hot drink and/or a sandwich - it's the kind thing to honour the choice within that boundary.

You're not wrong to refuse to do things outside your limits. If you're prepared to buy a soft drink but not a can of beer, you're OK to repeat you can't buy the beer, but they can have whatever soft drink they like. It's not CFery of them to see what they can get (you stopped to talk, how many other people did?) but it's also not wrong of you to reinforce that your kindness has boundaries.

If you're the type of person who ends up followed around a supermarket by a homeless person hoping you'll buy very specific things, I'd suggest you shouldn't be engaging. The last thing you want is to make a homeless person reliant on you, so every time they see you in the streets, they ask you for something you can't give them. Some people with very kind intentions do sometimes inadvertently put themselves at risk, because they find boundaries very difficult when they feel so guilty about being better off.

If you find these conversations too hard to manage, honestly, this isn't a fob off - the best way to support people on the streets is to make sure homeless charities know about them, so they can deliver the practical support instead, with experienced volunteers and staff having those interactions. You can, for example, flag a rough sleeper to Street Link here: www.streetlink.org.uk Give them as much information as you can, and they'll make sure an outreach worker checks up on them.

You can also donate money to homeless charities like Street Link, Shelter and Crisis. Or volunteer your time with one of them. Sometimes, the best way to support someone is to make sure someone with a different skillset to you takes the lead - and you support that person instead, whether financially or with time.

@Vodkaany1 , I'm sorry this interaction has left you feeling unsure if you did the right thing, and uncertain about how to handle yourself next time. But you know you meant well, so take comfort in your instincts for kindness, and don't feel obliged to stop next time if it doesn't feel right. Instead, report the location to Street Link and bob the charity the few quid you'd have been prepared to spend on a sandwich. You can feel more certain you've helped that way, without wondering if you've helped a genuine person, and without feeling personally unsafe.

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/10/2022 05:53

Iwanttoholdyourham · 11/10/2022 05:51

Not you, @Vodkaany1 , but @Wdib78 's comment on mobile phones is ridiculous.

Most people in the UK weren't born homeless, but fell into rough sleeping after their lives blew up. Often it's a breakdown with family, job loss and/or addiction. There are plenty of nice middle class men for example, who get divorced, can't afford to live on their own, and don't get treated as priority by the council because they're single men and supposed to take care of themselves, and they end up on the streets.

Women with kids struggle to get council accommodation as it is, because we have a shortage of housing stock. What do you think happens to all those men who don't get council housing? I can tell you, they don't magically find somewhere else to live.

Once you're on the streets, it becomes very difficult to get yourself off the streets. And some people end up with such poor mental ill health that they struggle to live inside again, given the choice. I've volunteered in shelters before where people have come in for practical support like food and showers, then slept back outside because they're so accustomed to the noise of the city. Fixing homelessness isn't always as simple as giving everyone somewhere to stay.

If you had a handset before you were sleeping rough, why wouldn't you cling on it when you were on the streets? It's hard enough not having a fixed address - can you imagine not being contactable by mobile and email either? If you don't have a phone, you can acquire one via a homeless charity. Getting people off the streets is the ultimate goal. There are lots of hoops to jump through in the meantime, and charities will try their best to provide support in that period, and that can include giving a PAYG handset to a rough sleeper and helping to keep it topped up so they can stay connected.

Depends on the location, but where I am, you can charge your phone on the bus (riding public transport is always a great way of staying warm and safe, and relatively cheap, so that's a bonus) or in shopping centres (again, nice and warm inside, and unlikely to be attacked given the number of people and cameras around).

When it comes to giving money or things to homeless people - sure, some do take the mick. Some aren't even genuine, and are just con artists. It can be difficult to read if the person in front of you is 'real' or not, if you don't have a lot of experience in speaking to rough sleepers. Some people just try their luck. Some are gang members and/or trafficked victims, forced to beg for what they can get. Although many people on the streets are genuine, there are unfortunately some people who take advantage of that by mimicking them and playing on your heartstrings.

If you are prepared to buy something for someone, remember, dignity is important. If you buy a bunch of food and drink and give to a homeless person, they might not be able to eat it. Anyone can be homeless. That can include vegetarians, for example, who would rather be hungry than eat meat. You can still be religious on the streets. You can still have allergies. You can still have a set of values that you refuse to compromise.

Not everyone has a substance abuse problem. But for those who do, it can mess with their tastebuds. A hot drink, for example, might need no sugar in it, or it might need 10 sugars in it to be palatable. If you tell people what you are prepared to do - e.g. offer them a hot drink and/or a sandwich - it's the kind thing to honour the choice within that boundary.

You're not wrong to refuse to do things outside your limits. If you're prepared to buy a soft drink but not a can of beer, you're OK to repeat you can't buy the beer, but they can have whatever soft drink they like. It's not CFery of them to see what they can get (you stopped to talk, how many other people did?) but it's also not wrong of you to reinforce that your kindness has boundaries.

If you're the type of person who ends up followed around a supermarket by a homeless person hoping you'll buy very specific things, I'd suggest you shouldn't be engaging. The last thing you want is to make a homeless person reliant on you, so every time they see you in the streets, they ask you for something you can't give them. Some people with very kind intentions do sometimes inadvertently put themselves at risk, because they find boundaries very difficult when they feel so guilty about being better off.

If you find these conversations too hard to manage, honestly, this isn't a fob off - the best way to support people on the streets is to make sure homeless charities know about them, so they can deliver the practical support instead, with experienced volunteers and staff having those interactions. You can, for example, flag a rough sleeper to Street Link here: www.streetlink.org.uk Give them as much information as you can, and they'll make sure an outreach worker checks up on them.

You can also donate money to homeless charities like Street Link, Shelter and Crisis. Or volunteer your time with one of them. Sometimes, the best way to support someone is to make sure someone with a different skillset to you takes the lead - and you support that person instead, whether financially or with time.

@Vodkaany1 , I'm sorry this interaction has left you feeling unsure if you did the right thing, and uncertain about how to handle yourself next time. But you know you meant well, so take comfort in your instincts for kindness, and don't feel obliged to stop next time if it doesn't feel right. Instead, report the location to Street Link and bob the charity the few quid you'd have been prepared to spend on a sandwich. You can feel more certain you've helped that way, without wondering if you've helped a genuine person, and without feeling personally unsafe.

Excellent comment! 👏👏

SnoozyLucy7 · 11/10/2022 05:54

Funkyblues101 · 11/10/2022 05:47

What if you'd bought him a scratch card and he'd won £50 000 on it? What then?

What do you mean what then? Would you want a cut of that because you bought the scratch card?