State vs independent school open days

[user55875537986543]

Please tell me if I’m BU…

Looking at secondary schools. Have been to 3 independent school open mornings, 3 more to look at. Each school has sent an itinerary of the morning and a clear email so we know what to expect (really helpful when deciding if the children should come or not - not all tours have activities for younger siblings but some do).

Also trying to look at two state options but they have one fixed open evening and that’s it. No flexibility. No option for a smaller tour mid week, no option to speak to a member of staff outside that one evening.

The state schools are over subscribed and so I understand that they don’t massively need to “sell” themselves. But the independent schools are massively oversubscribed too and yet are happy to make time for children and parents to work out which school is the best fit.

Also, all the independent schools have their open days on Saturdays. Which means that most parents can actually make it with some notice.

Just a bit pissed off and needed a rant. I absolutely cannot choose a school based on a rushed evening visit without the chance to ask questions properly.

I would emphasise again that contacting the SENCo directly is the way to go re dyslexia - where applicant children are on the SEN register at any level, my experience is that the least you can expect is a detailed response by e-mail or telephone, and you may also have the opportunity for a separate tour and discussion, depending on your child’s needs.

If this is your child in state primary, then a conversation between their current SENCo and the secondary SENCo is also normal, and your primary SENCo may be able to advise on the experience of previous pupils moving on to specific schools.

In an ideal world, you would be able to have at least a telephone conversation with the SENDCO, and I do know parents who have managed to get that. On the other hand, imagine if you have a child struggling to settle into year 7, and you can't get hold of the SENDCO because they're too busy dealing with potential parents, some of whom are likely to send their kids to a private school anyway.

It's perhaps worth sending an email with some specific questions.

If you can work out which of the two state schools you prefer, then you then have more time to seek a conversation before you have to commit to state or private.

‘don’t want/need a brochure, a cappuccino or a bag with the school logo. I would like some time to hear a talk from the head and a chance to speak to a few key members of staff. I would like to speak to learning support about how they cope with children with dyslexia, I would like to speak to someone about GCSE options and I would like to speak to someone about pastoral care (assuming none of this is covered in detail by the main talk). I would like 15 minutes to ask questions without being rushed.’

we got ALL of this at the open evenings we went to at our local state comps. We had 3 hours to talk to teachers, go in class rooms, try experiments, play games, there was a brochure, a head teacher talk, biscuits, students as guides, heads of dept were all available, every teacher was there. The pastoral staff were in a base so you could talk to them, they had a room that was laid out just for curriculum and were parents could speak to staff about GSCEs, EB, IB…
SEN staff were there…
all pretty standard at open evenings in our town - but you do have to make the time to go

And as your child has SEN then of course you should arrange a meeting or call separately about their provision

@DragonMovie thank you for posting. The thing is, it might actually be the best option for my child. That’s why I’m so keen to see it. My child without SEN probably won’t go but who knows.

@user55875537986543

Clearly we're on different pages.

As I said, we get no choice. At all. So none of that is relevant and I wouldnt ever choose a private school.

If you're genuinely interested in the stare schools as an option then its on you to make the open day they have scheduled.

I found going yr 5 and yr 6 helpful. Some start yr4. So general look yr 5 and then yr 6 knew lie of land and could hone in. In both state options we looked at the learning support was open or Sen teacher available to speak to, I spoke to them at length as my dc had a disability.
Teachers often change especially in state so I don’t see how speaking to individual teachers helps.
Info on gcse options will be in website or ask but again very much subject to change. DD’s school has completely changed language options.
You just have to go on feel and results.
If you are wanting a lot of contact with school and working parent friendly then private is probably a better fit.

Please don’t explain budgets and privilege to me over and over. I’m an intelligent professional parent. I have children in state and private schools. I get it.

Except clearly you don't.

Our local state schools were open to me having a separate conversation with the SENCO regarding SEN provision etc. I also found the open day to be extremely interesting and informative with lots of teachers present and available for short chats.

So either your local state schools are particularly unfriendly or your expectations are just too high. And for all your comments about 4 children applying for 1 place at a private school, you really don't seem to understand the realities of the difference between state and independent.

DS and DN are both starting secondary school this year. DS is at local state school - 8 form entry, 31 children per class. DN is at local independent school - 5 form entry, 16-20 children per class. But a not dissimilar number of teachers/ staff.

@cantkeepawayforever our current SENCO did ask to speak to the prospective schools SENCO but was told it can’t be until next term…

Ah, sorry, missed the fact this was your prep schooled child while I was typing. What does the prep SENCo advise? Do they have links with / experience of the secondary school you are considering? What level if the SEN pathway are they on?

I'm not being "horrible". One of my DC has dyslexia too and I'm sure was welcome in her school once she was there as also academic. I didn't expect them to make a special effort to make sure those with dyslexia or other SEN apply though. The extra resources that could be required required cost time and money and they have little of it.

@Gotskeaswr sounds amazing! I can make time to go but the school I’m most interested in has an open evening that clashes with school pick ups and work that I can’t change.

I don't mind the only one open evening as I know how tight school budgets are but do wish they'd co-ordinate as 2 local schools had theirs on the same day! Fortunately one does offer morning tours too. Another had there's the same day as the 11+ exam ( we're in a very competitive area so a pass at 11+ is no guarantee of a place so needed to look at comprehensives too). No idea about private as that's not an option for us.

Can't your kids dad go?

You could start with the SEN Information Report on the school websites - state schools have to publish these, it's a statutory requirement. You'll find info on there about their SEN offer, and what provision there is for SEN Support and EHCP pupils and it should tell you about their inclusion policy, whether or not they have an SEN base that pupils can access. GCSE options info is usually there too, but that may have changed by the time your DC are making their choices. Look for Year 9 KS4 options on the website.

Is the state school a selective one? Are they saying ‘it is most sensible to talk once we know they have passed the selection stage?’

I can see that might be a reasonable response if you have 10-20x as many applicants as pass the exam, simply for reasons of prioritising workload.

@NotLactoseFree so rude. Maybe you didn’t mean to be.

@Topgub he could if he was alive. Yes. Thanks.

@cantkeepawayforever not selective, no but very popular.

Could you get another parent to take your child? We did that for DD’s friend. Then at least child has properly looked around.
If you look back open days are usually on same day/week so it’s usually easy to predict when they will be to book leave.

The thing is, as people have said on this thread some state secondary schools do offer really good open mornings/evenings with ample opportunity for parents to get a good feel for the school and ask questions.

It's not rude to disagree with you. You clearly do not understand the economics of state school vs independent and are frustrated that state schools aren't able or willing to do more to accommodate you. I understand the frustration, but this is the reality of state school - parents have to accommodate them, not the other way around.

Sorry, you can't see that.

@Dixiechickonhols it’s something I’m trying to work out. I’d need someone to collect children from two schools and take them home for supper and homework etc though and I’d need to move a meeting that I’m not sure it’s possible for me to move. I will try my best though!

@NotLactoseFree wait, what? State schools have less money than independent schools? What? 🫣🫣

Can you not just do both applications in parallel - state and private - and then turn down the place you don’t want? If you are allocated a state place in the popular school, the SENCo etc will definitely be willing to talk (and there may be another opportunity fir you or your child or both to view) so you can make the decision at that point? It seems to me you have nothing to lose?

I had missed the fact that you weren’t available fir one of the open evenings. That’s difficult. Can you arrange a one-off playdate or childcare for that day?