State vs independent school open days

[user55875537986543]

Please tell me if I’m BU…

Looking at secondary schools. Have been to 3 independent school open mornings, 3 more to look at. Each school has sent an itinerary of the morning and a clear email so we know what to expect (really helpful when deciding if the children should come or not - not all tours have activities for younger siblings but some do).

Also trying to look at two state options but they have one fixed open evening and that’s it. No flexibility. No option for a smaller tour mid week, no option to speak to a member of staff outside that one evening.

The state schools are over subscribed and so I understand that they don’t massively need to “sell” themselves. But the independent schools are massively oversubscribed too and yet are happy to make time for children and parents to work out which school is the best fit.

Also, all the independent schools have their open days on Saturdays. Which means that most parents can actually make it with some notice.

Just a bit pissed off and needed a rant. I absolutely cannot choose a school based on a rushed evening visit without the chance to ask questions properly.

@toddlingtortoise googles JCOSS

@toddlingtortoise ha, nope. That’d be quite the commute for me 😂

Lots of private school teachers don’t get paid extra to do an open morning. It’s just expected and accepted.

But you are getting what you pay for. Right from the start.

The other thing I'd add, just because I'm not sure anyone's mentioned it, there's not any real benefit to a non-selective state school in terms of being oversubscribed. They don't get to pick the students (obviously), so it doesn't really matter if there's 30 or 50 or however many extra students who would really like to come to the school and have put it as their first choice. (And ironically, they may lose out against students who've put the school as their second or third choice).

What does matter is if they've got, say, a PAN of 170, and then 10 extra students get in on appeal- that can start pushing class sizes up to let's say 33 or higher, which is about the level where you start running out of seats and teachers start to complain it's too many students. It makes running practical work difficult in some subjects.

Or worse, if there aren't enough school spaces locally, the school can be asked to take a bulge class, which can be a real logistical problem for the school.

Obviously, schools don't want to be massively under subscribed, but I think the idea for most schools is taking a few under their PAN, so they can easily admit new students as they come to the area, and keep class sizes manageable.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl another really great point!

In the state sector you can't really choose a school anyway. It's allocated to you

Thank you, that is a generous and kind response. I'm also sorry for your loss. There are still some state schools that are truly inspirational places, despite all the odds. They will make time for you, even when they are under such pressure.

I hope you are lucky.

@fleurdelee not always, no. We have a very high chance of a place at two state schools. So whichever we put first we’re highly likely to get. So we do have a real choice.

@Startagain51 thank you. I have lots of teacher friends in state schools and some of their schools I’d (almost) move counties to get into!

Flipping eck OP you have set your expectations of an under resourced state school massively high. They go for what is most doable for he majority and teachers. That means it is not going to revolve around your schedule. Jeez

@Wiganerbylocal thank you so much

Sorry but I think you're being a bit unfair. I teach in a state school and we had one open eve. Stayed open until 8pm to give families as long as possible to visit.

The head gave her presentation twice and both she and her deputy were available all evening to answer queries.
We had a designated person answering queries about admissions, the SEND team available as well.

As a curriculum leader, I organised for my team and pupils to run activities so that I could focus on questions about curriculum and GCSE options/post 16 progression. We never stopped all night.

Thankfully, the feedback we received from families was excellent.

All done on a limited budget and on top of an already busy teaching week. We can't offer more slots as we simply don't have capacity to staff them. If anyone has specific questions we are always happy to answer emails and calls.

@PumpkinPie2016 my point was that when I called the school to say I thought I might not be able to come they didn’t offer a phone call or email. It was just one open evening, nothing more.

I don’t want special treatment but I also don’t want to be rushed and not able to ask the questions I need to know the answers to.

As it is, I have rescheduled work so I can go but will have my children with me which isn’t ideal (fine for the child I’m actually looking for to come). But there we are. Hopefully I can find out enough and hopefully I can snatch some time out of earshot of my children to speak to some staff members!

You've had to compromise a bit to get to the open evening. Welcome to state education! Hopefully you will find when you go that despite them only offering one open evening slot (and when I started teaching there were none offered at all in most schools) you will get a decent flavour of the school, the students and the teachers. I would hope the SENCO will also take time to speak to you. Remember that school staff are already knackered at this point in the term - most of us have had flu/colds/Covid already and are dealing with a myriad of post Covid social issues - but in the best schools we will still smile, answer all your questions and show interest in your child. We are not there as PR agents but as professionals going above and beyond because we want to do a good job.

It's in the independent schools interests to do them on a Saturday. As you are paying for it!

Very sorry for your loss.

Startagsain51. Very sorry to for your lose. We will absolutely be supporting the strike.

I don't understand why people have to be so rude about OPs post. The minute you mentio private schools it gets peoples back up. Choosing secondary school is a massive decision,for some, and I wouldn't be happy either if I couldn't actually look at the school in advance. It sends a message that they don't care which they don't. Maybe its not their fault that they don't care i. e lack of resources but result is the same