State vs independent school open days

[user55875537986543]

Please tell me if I’m BU…

Looking at secondary schools. Have been to 3 independent school open mornings, 3 more to look at. Each school has sent an itinerary of the morning and a clear email so we know what to expect (really helpful when deciding if the children should come or not - not all tours have activities for younger siblings but some do).

Also trying to look at two state options but they have one fixed open evening and that’s it. No flexibility. No option for a smaller tour mid week, no option to speak to a member of staff outside that one evening.

The state schools are over subscribed and so I understand that they don’t massively need to “sell” themselves. But the independent schools are massively oversubscribed too and yet are happy to make time for children and parents to work out which school is the best fit.

Also, all the independent schools have their open days on Saturdays. Which means that most parents can actually make it with some notice.

Just a bit pissed off and needed a rant. I absolutely cannot choose a school based on a rushed evening visit without the chance to ask questions properly.

You clearly didn't have to pick a school during covid.

I did have any open days when picking my son's school. Best we got were videos and zoom calls with presubmitted questions.

Ok, well in that case they need to be very accommodating with open days and tours to make sure that they attract the top students and convince the cream of the crop to pick them.

Many Independent schools are making a very nice earning just from applications. Then the exams. Oh and the tutorials for the exams

how many will get into the school well depends but for some it’s 20% of those applying but having been impressed by the school many parents will still be applying so handing over money before a child has even been accepted

Ok. Well thanks all. I know that the independent schools have budgets for open days etc. I get it.

What I’m surprised at is that any school isn’t open to a conversation with parents who can’t make the one open day available or who have a child with SEN and needs a more thorough chat about what provision might look like.

Please don’t explain budgets and privilege to me over and over. I’m an intelligent professional parent. I have children in state and private schools. I get it.

I am looking for a warm and friendly welcome to each school community so they can show me what their school is like and I can get a real feel for it. I really don’t need bells and whistles but I do need reassurance and to be able to understand if the school will be a good fit for each individual child.

I actually don’t think IABU to be able to speak to a prospective school about learning support. (And no, it’s not a SEN that would stop my child from getting into a highly selective academic school, but it is a SEN that requires support from school).

@Twizbe I can only imagine!

If open days require teachers to work unpaid, and the school is oversubscribed why would state schools have an open day that is convenient for you? They probably couldn't care less if you tried to enrol your DC as they will be full anyway. The Independent schools are not in the same position as they probably don't just take the nearest pupils as comprehensive state schools have to (e.g. they may have entrance exams) so even if oversubscribed they probably want as many people to apply as possible so that they can be more fussy about the pupils.

State school teachers can't be made to work on Saturdays (even if they offer extra pay for it), and there are limits on how much they can asked to be do in the evenings. It's not so much about whether they are paid for it, but whether it is part of the contract.

The majority of parents looking at state schools have rather less choice about where their child goes, and some will be rather less invested than those looking at private schools.

State schools get no say in which applicants they get (except grammars), so if they're over-subscribed, there's not much benefit in having more applicants. Arguably, what might benefit them is putting off the less-desirable applicants!

Having said that, I found the problem with the open evening at DD's school was that there was insufficient time to go round everything. You could easily have spent half an hour or more in the science labs, which half of us were directed to first. We managed to give our pupil guide the slip and move on to the subjects where we had specific questions, but I think some parents probably never did get to see the staff they really wanted to talk to. The neighbouring school was more free-flow, so you could prioritise more easily.

@Talkwhilstyouwalk they do need to show the school in a good light of course, but they also let results and reputation speak for themselves too.

@user55875537986543

No.

I didnt. I dont know anyone who did.

Why would we? It makes no difference

It sounds like your issue is largely abound SEN provision. If you are genuinely interested in the state options and not just as a back up if your DC doesn't make the grade then you can always email them. This sort of info is freely available on most school websites.

I think it’s also worth considering what the open evening is ‘for’ in each case.

Private school parents have choices as to where they will spend a huge sum of money - and private school open days are designed to persuade them to spend that money with them.

State school parents, in reality, have very little choice, so what a state school open day is doing is giving its future parents - and also others who are likely not to be given a place - an opportunity to see the inside of the institution that their child will be allocated a place at. Local oversubscribed schools will welcome several thousands of parents to open evenings, so the experience is necessarily somewhat factory-like on a day when the staff will probably be working 12+ hours in school plus their normal extra at home in the evening. Even the largest primary school open day / evening is likely to involve only a few hundred parents.

That said, in terms of your specific questions - an e-mail directed to the school SENCo should elicit information about dyslexia, and there should be a GCSE options booklet or similar on the website.

@User135792468 oh please. So I can’t look at good independent schools and good state schools too? Really? I have an academic child who has dyslexia. I need to find the best fit for them. This includes working out where the best learning support provision might be within school.

I think you're a bit delusional to expect them to work around you rather than the other way around. Realistically, they don't probably don't particularly want children with SEN as a presumably they may require extra resources for the extra support.

@cantkeepawayforever really good points about what the open events are for. Thank you.

15 mins x possibly 200 + pupils. Not going to happen in a state school. Most talks allow parents to ask some questions don't they? I think you need to lower your expectations somewhat.

Just ask to speak to the SENCO outside of the open day

Maybe you should email your questions to the head (or whoever else might manage admissions) at each school?

@celestialsphere “they don't probably don't particularly want children with SEN” That’s so horrible.

My dyslexic child currently has an academic scholarship to their prep school. They are very much “wanted” and welcome in their (very hard to get in to!) prep school currently!

‘But the independent schools are massively oversubscribed too and yet are happy to make time for children and parents to work out which school is the best fit.’

because they are after your MONEY! And for them putting the time and resources to showcase the school is with ££££ to them. And they have the staff and resources to do this. You’re a paying customer to them… and they’re fighting for your money over other schools.

State schools of course want good pupils, engaged parents but are less likely to want to disrupt schools days to accommodate this, and quite frankly their staff work hard enough without coming in on Saturdays when there’s no need to…

Its your problem you can't make the open day.

Not the schools

Teachers in state schools are given workload that puts them way over capacity on any given week. Then some weeks you have to add the organisation of open evenings, the event itself, parents’ evenings, extraordinary sporting events, trips and more. There is no additional time allocated for these activities or extra staff.

No additional funding is available to state schools for the heating bills they are facing OR the announced teacher pay rises. So schools have to do the same job this year with WAY less money. How to balance the books? Cut all but absolutely essential services - ie make redundancies.

In an oversubscribed school is selling yourself to parents an essential service? Compared to teaching lessons and buying basic school equipment?

In my school there are SIX applicants per place. Potentially over a thousand families wanting 15 mins of the school’s time.

Honestly things are dire in the state sector, even in an excellent school like mine. I am a huge advocate of state education but I really don’t think now is the time for people with other options to consider it.

Independent schools are selling to you with the ‘glossy brochure’ approach. People fall under the spell.
Good state schools are often oversubscribed so no need to actively recruit. Open days for them are an opportunity to inform parents and help decisions. They are already seriously under resourced so no tea in the cricket pavilion, house-based cheese and wine, real tennis match or ticketed dance shows.

Our local middle school wouldn't do a personal tour but when I called up they did put me through for a chat with the head and I was able to ask specific questions. That takes up less of their time than a tour so perhaps see if you can do that.

@Topgub you lost me when you said that you wouldn’t care about facilities or results at your child’s school. I think we’re on different pages.

Not every single parent can make just one date and time in a whole year with only a few weeks notice. Some parents are away with work, some are unwell, some are doing shifts as nurses, doctors etc, some are gasp teachers with their own school commitments.

This.

All you see on an Open Day/Evening is the grounds, classrooms. How long is that going to take? If you want to acatually find out about what the schools are like, you'll need to talk to parents, look up reviews, start a sneaky thread on mumsnet to find out what people are prepared to say anonymously. 😂