State vs independent school open days

[user55875537986543]

Please tell me if I’m BU…

Looking at secondary schools. Have been to 3 independent school open mornings, 3 more to look at. Each school has sent an itinerary of the morning and a clear email so we know what to expect (really helpful when deciding if the children should come or not - not all tours have activities for younger siblings but some do).

Also trying to look at two state options but they have one fixed open evening and that’s it. No flexibility. No option for a smaller tour mid week, no option to speak to a member of staff outside that one evening.

The state schools are over subscribed and so I understand that they don’t massively need to “sell” themselves. But the independent schools are massively oversubscribed too and yet are happy to make time for children and parents to work out which school is the best fit.

Also, all the independent schools have their open days on Saturdays. Which means that most parents can actually make it with some notice.

Just a bit pissed off and needed a rant. I absolutely cannot choose a school based on a rushed evening visit without the chance to ask questions properly.

@EmmaDilemma5 they’re funded differently?! 🫣

@Postapocalypticcowgirl thank you for your post. I don’t think my expectations are unrealistic as many people seem to have had a brilliant experience with state school tours. I’m not expecting the earth but the school I’m
most interested in has a great reputation for SEN so it’s surprising that the school isn’t more keen to talk. I am going to make the last 2/3 of the open evening so hopefully I can ask all my questions then!

Couldn't agree more. You do a fantastic job. Its all take take take with some people.

As I said, I do think it's a shame that the SENCO isn't able to make time to talk to you, and it is possibly not a great sign. Sometimes "great reputation for SEN" can lead to a lot of parents choosing that school for children with SEN, and that may leave the SENCO with an unmanageable workload. Or there may be other reasons as to why they aren't able to spare time to talk to prospective parents this term. It may also be that the volume of requests they've had is simply too high to accommodate- so to be fair to everyone they're speaking to no-one or prioritising by need.

In my experience as a teacher during state school open evenings, parents aren't rushed around, and we always offer time to talk. Pastoral leads and SEN staff are available to talk to as well. Hopefully you will find the experience better than you expect.

I do understand it's a big decision for you, and as you have a genuine choice, it's a different situation to parents who are basically just going to see the school their children will be going to. But state schools will always be limited in what they can offer in terms of staff time and parent contact compared to many independent schools, and I think that's something to be aware of going forwards. If that's really a deal breaker for you, then I think it's better to figure that out now, than two or three years down the line.

It is different to primary, simply due to the number of students each member of staff will teach, and the number of students the school has to accommodate as a whole.

@Plumbear2 Why so rude? I am nothing but supportive of my childrens schools and teachers. Wanting to attend a well run open morning is not “take take take.” Ffs.

Many people have explained to you why state schools carnt offer more yet you refuse to listen. Teachers have explained it to you. I agree state education is not for you for the teachers sake don't do it.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl Actually, the SENCO didn’t say I couldn’t communicate with her - I realise now it was the office staff. So maybe at the open evening I’ll find her to be much more open.

My children have also lost their father in the last couple of years so I also need to really be confident and comfortable with the pastoral care too.

@Plumbear2 state school parent for the last 4 years. Stop bullying and patronising me.

82% day you are being unreasonable. Time to listen.

@Plumbear2 and many people have explained that they have had fantastic, flexible and thorough open days and extra tours at state secondary schools. But you refuse to see this outside the narrow lens of your own experience.

In a primary school. High school is very different.

Like I said 82%

@Plumbear2 secondary school is different? Again, wow! Thank you so much for your help.

@Plumbear2 83% think you’re annoying 🙄

You don't seem to realise this.

Teachers in state schools don't get paid extra for open days

Neither do those in independents. Unfortunately, our jobs are dependent on bums on seats so that means the expectations of staff are going to be greater. Simple economics,

If you had posted 5 years ago, I'd have said definitely go for the state school, get involved, we need someone as intelligent and articulate as you on the governing body, fighting on our side.

Now? Please just send your kids to private schools. Teachers in state schools are beyond breaking point and can't give you what you need. One of my colleagues committed suicide recently. This is the reality that you say you fully understand. You're beyond privileged that you have a choice. Perhaps you could just support us in the forthcoming strike action, we would appreciate it.

@user55875537986543 I totally get that, and I think your concerns are reasonable and valid. I'm not saying they're not.

The problem is, at an oversubscribed, large secondary school, there may be many families where there is some specific concern and parents/carers will want to speak to the school. There will likely be looked after children, there may well be other children who have lost a parent or a close relative, there will be children who are young carers, children who have mental health issues, children applying from out of area who know no-one, children who have other complex issues going on within their family. At this stage, the head of Y7, or the head of pastoral care could spend hours talking to parents who may not even apply to the school.

My experience of this is working at a large secondary school which was oversubscribed and in an area where parents had genuine school choice and some did go private (not London, though). The school had an intake of over 250 per year group, and they were oversubscribed every year- and of course there are parents who consider the school and then don't apply. If the school had allowed it, some pastoral staff could have spent 30+ hours talking to parents/carers who might apply and might get a place. But they didn't think that was a sensible use of staff time. At the moment you might disagree, but next year think how you'd feel if you couldn't speak to an important member of staff because they were busy dealing with prospective parents.

Equally, the last school I worked at was much smaller- the school had an intake of about 150 per year. It was the only school in a rural town, a very small number of children in the town went to private schools, and a small number went to the school in the next town. Pastoral staff and SEN staff were happy to spend a bit of time talking to prospective parents/carers, because a) it's most likely the child would end up coming to the school, and b) the number of parents who wanted to speak to the school outside of open evenings was a lot less.

I'm sure private schools may be in the situation of many, many parents wanting to speak to pastoral staff- but they are in a different position, and I imagine most private school staff see recruiting as part of their role- even if it's a very oversubscribed school. And the staff will probably have more time to spend on this.

There will likely be looked after children, there may well be other children who have lost a parent or a close relative, there will be children who are young carers, children who have mental health issues, children applying from out of area who know no-one, children who have other complex issues going on within their family. At this stage, the head of Y7, or the head of pastoral care could spend hours talking to parents who may not even apply to the school

do you think these children never attend private schools?

its obvious why isn’t it - money. You need to use other resources to make your decision too, exam results, Ofsted, they are more valuable than a head talk anyway.

Your contract must specify working x number of Saturdays, or x number of open days, though- beyond whatever you're employed to work during term time? It's not that you get overtime for it, but your salary will be calculated with this in mind.

It's not quite the same, but someone I know who teaches FE has 3 Saturday open days written into their contract, and their salary is calculated with this included. Obviously, they have to recruit, the same as private schools do.

Whereas state staff outside of free schools will be employed on the standard 190 teaching days + 5 inset days contract, and can't really be asked to work on an open day.

@Startagain51 I’m so sorry. How horrific. I vote for the government I feel will do the most of all overstretched public services (no prizes for guessing who!).

I know I’m privileged to have a choice. Not to justify it at all, but I have the choice of independent schools because my husband died and so we have insurance money. Without that it would be a lot tighter.

My child is no better or worse than any other. But they are a straight A grade, grade 5 on two instruments age 10 type kid who is kind and absolutely loves school. The type who volunteers for everything - including reading with the reception children twice a week this term. They understand that when you’re part of a school community you represent the school and you do your best. I hope they’d be an asset wherever they go and if they go to the state school I will be nothing but supportive of whichever school they go to and that’s why I need to choose the right school so we don’t get a few terms in and hit bumps in the road.

I haven’t worked in education for years but have spent many years in the NHS and I can’t tell you how crazy the lack of funding makes me. Again, I do what I can. I vote. I am always, always kind to my NHS colleagues when I’m a patient.

I’m so sorry again for your loss.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl you’re right and beyond the information I get from the parents evening I think I’ll have to wait for an offer before I take up any more of their time

@Givenuptotally I think @Postapocalypticcowgirl was saying that among the children who will be looking solely at the state schools there will be many in those categories. Nothing else.

Of you are looking at JCOSS you’re never going to get a SENCO to talk to you speculatively. They’re totally overwhelmed by parents whose children have SEN and unless you have an EHCP they perfectly reasonably won’t give you the time of day until you have an offer. Why would they? They have so many parents choosing them for their SEN they wouldn’t be able to support the children already there if they met all prospective parents. If it is them, they have had 2 open mornings and an open evening. I think that’s pretty reasonable for any school.