Totally agree with Sturgeon re the tories

[FayeGovan]

I destest them and their policies too

Good on her for telling it like it is

I know shes hated on mn, or rather on scotsnet. They prefer the tories there, christ knows why. Independence is a dirty word on scotsnet. So i know I'll be shot down, but i couldn't care less.

Good on you Nicola👍

@beachcitygirl what do you mean by free at point of use? Everyone pays for their water supply in the UK. Many of us are actually paying way more than we would be if Scottish Water would be more open to installing domestic meters.

'Come on now dear that's not a difficult concept to grasp, but it's an important one.'

Why are you calling posters 'doll' and 'dear'??

We don’t always get the vote we want. I’m in London it’s largely remain, it’s how I voted. But if remain had won I’d want that to be the vote not re run.

If you do get it around half won’t want it but you’ll just be blaming each other. More division. But at least it won’t be the fault of people here any longer

Direct from the Scottish Government website😂

www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202200304871/

Assume that is an acceptable source for you??

Scottish government website = written by the SNP to paint them in the best light.

It's hardly an impartial source now, is it?

But what’s funny about telling a nation that an independent Scotland can be a prosperous and happy place to live, when economist after economist says that this is not true? Gaslighting a nation? I don’t call
that funny.

Pretty obviously it's different because Scotland is a country in it's own right.

And there are fringes of SNP support who very much do despise the English. The ones who stood on the border in the pandemic with a banner saying "fuck off back to England" who weren't condemned by Saint Nicola

Err naw. Try again. You clearly haven't got the first clue exactly who these people were, but i'll help you out. They were a small bunch of extremist morons who are well known within Scotland, so much so that they are routinely excluded from participating in wider Indi movement events, their members are expressly prohibited from SNP membership, and if SNP members are seen in cahoots with them they have their SNP membership annulled.

So why should Nicola Sturgeon give a flying fuck about the actions of a group that are absolutely nothing to do with her, or her party? Are you as outraged that she hasn't condemned anything else that is absolutely nothing to do with the SNP?

Keep spouting your totally ignorant drivel though, it's a perfect match with 95% of the rest of the complete shite in this thread

No better laugh than a Mumsnet NS thread for the completely unhinged foaming it produces. 😂

I detest Sturgeon and the snp. They have ruined Scotland with their lies, bigotry and inability to do the job they are paid to do. I was once proud of my country but now i hang my head in shame at what this once proud nation has become.

I know! It’s a bit 😐 and massively reduces any credibility a particular Michael Winner style.

@BigWoollyJumpers perfectly acceptable source but I do see now why you didn't include the link originally.

You see this little nugget was from the budget during the global pandemic when the uk government (rightly) borrowed on behalf of all 4 nations as income was so massively reduced & more spending required.

Unfortunately the Scottish government doesn't have the powers to borrow - westminster does.

It's hardly news to anyone that more was spent by (any) government than taken during the pandemic.

Statistics can say anything. Context is everything.
I can do this all day.

Simple thing is democracy

You either believe in it or you don't.

The majority of voters in scotland consistently put into power pro-independence governments, MSP's,MSP's & councillors.

A union is only a union if all 4 participants wish to remain. Otherwise it's occupation. Democracy doesn't stand still or we wouldn't have elections every 5 years.

It's really that simple. Also be aware that a vote for the re-unification of Ireland is also on the cards.

Wales is becoming increasingly pro-independence

England shouldn't be afraid to go it alone. Self-governance is normal.

As for the joker who previously suggested allowing voters in rUK a say. How would that have washed with uk voters re brexit? So stop being silly.

And plenty of other incidents which she has had to condemn from her lovely supporters, from chanting "if you hate the fucking English clap your hands" www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7275485/nicola-sturgeon-condemns-anti-english-chants/ to pelting voters and a BBC reporter with eggs at a hustings. www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20667338.nicola-sturgeon-condemns-abuse-hurled-bbc-reporter-independence/

Her supporters. Her voters. Her little army of nationalists. Time and time again she is forced to make apologies for their abuse and anti-English campaigns, lots of other times she just ignores it. But simultaneously keeps stoking it up by her words and actions?

This is exactly why the unhinged ranting that fills NS threads are so funny.

Yet again you betray your complete and utter ignorance of events that you've somehow become a seething mess over.

So first of all it's outrageous that NS doesn't condemn people who are nothing to do with the SNP, and now, here, you complaining about her condemning the very same people, who, again, are still nothing whatsoever to do with the SNP.

Go have a look at the banners the people hurling abuse at the Scots Tory conference were standing behind? Spot the SNP logo on them? No, you won't, because those people are in no way affiliated with the SNP and they'd rip you to shreds for suggesting they were. The logo on their banners is that of Siol Nan Gael, lo and behold, the same morons who turned up at the border ranting about English people.

What have 12 years of Tory rule done for any of us?

As far as i can see, every single aspect of UK life has got worse in the last decade.

& unlike Truss, Scotland, time and time again, vote for her.

The SNP have to govern within the confines of the devolved settlement, she can't govern in the normal sense of the word, so i'd love to see them go it alone, they ve tremendous resources, Tourism, forestry, fishing, renewables and still lots of NS gas etc plus they could charge England a small fortune for hosting Trident.

Tories are fools not giving them a vote, the SNP would lose now but in 5 or 10 years time?

There are certain things I detest about all political parties - the blatant corruption in the SNP, the way Labour in the 90’s destroyed private pension provision, the way the tories marginalise those not well enough to work, the way the liberals compromise their beliefs to get in power, the way the Greens have destroyed Brighton. The list goes on. But It shows a certain blinkered ignorance and lack of critical thinking to take the view that one party is all good, and another all bad IMO.

YANBU

I have never felt strongly about a government until this shower came in. I detest them with every fibre of my being and do not trust anybody who would be surprised that people feel like this.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX well said.

Every single country/organisation/council/group/ even street has the odd outlier group of nutters.

Decent People ignore them. I ignore the edl because (I'm sure rightly) the average decent English person also thinks them extremist nutters. And I don't expect truss to spend her time denouncing them every two mins. I take it as read that decent people don't think that way.

My late husband was English and a huge supporter of Scottish independence. He was a northerner who despised the tories as much as he despised the sun. What happened to England that a once proud nation keeps voting in such a set-serving, xenophobic, little England, greedy way. It's sad to see, but I don't blame individuals for it.

Wanting Scottish independence is not anti/English it's anti - union.

Let me put it another way .

I'm divorced - doesn't mean I think all men are assholes. But that union didn't work for me. We're happier apart. This union doesn't work for a lot of people in it. The geography & numbers (with England always winning by virtue of size ) makes it unpalatable to a lot of people.

We would prefer to be neighbours rather than flat mates .

Can't understand the issue with that personally .

YANBU. No amount of whataboutery can cover up the stinking mess the Tories have made.

Yah boo sucks to be you doll. Ye raging ? 😂 You're damn right I am. I can't wait till Nicola packs her bags and heads for her beloved France.

Like anyone in here is remotely interested in 'debate' 😆

Every single NS/Scots indi thread on MN is exactly the same. 99% rabid unionists ranting and raving about 'divisive', 'anti-english hate', things and people that are in no way connected to NS or the SNP, and venting impotent rage because it's abundantly clear that Scotland has moved on from unionist political parties and isn't going to turn back.

Why on earth would anyone want to have a 'debate' with people who do nothing but rage, and spout completely ill-informed and factually incorrect garbage? It's a complete waste of time.

It's worth it though, if only to laugh at how wound up people get about something they know the square root of fuck all about.

@beachcitygirl
Is that why my English husband received loads of abuse during the Indy Ref and after when we stayed up there? (Disclaimer :he voted Yes as well ya clowns ! Have yer Indy and enjoy it as you never call out the thugs and bigots on yer side! You show the nation up!)Here's the thing though- Nicola doesn't want Indy because it would mean she would actually have to do some work and take the blame for her mistakes instead of blaming Westminster. And if she thinks she can pull one over Scottish women, she is WRONG !

@beachcitygirl

As for the joker who previously suggested allowing voters in rUK a say. How would that have washed with uk voters re brexit? So stop being silly

NS actually came out and said that all Brits in the EU should be allowed a vote on Brexit.

So why don’t Scots in the rest of the UK get a vote on Indy? Oh yes. Again, you pick and choose what suits and when. Hypocrisy of the highest order. As usual.

I’d suggest there’s only one “joker” on here.

Because the pp didn't say "all scots in the uk should have a vote" the pp said all of the uk should have a vote.
Apples and oranges. I was talking about one sentiment not another.

For me personally, those who have to live with consequences of a vote get a say.
ie those who live & pay taxes there.

So for me anyone who lives in scotland gets a vote (irrespective of birth nationality)

For brexit anyone who lives in uk (irrespective of birth nationality ) should get a vote .

Not rocket science.

People who choose to live elsewhere & are not affected directly don't get a vote.

Is that why my English husband received loads of abuse during the Indy Ref and after when we stayed up there? (Disclaimer :he voted Yes as well ya clowns ! Have yer Indy and enjoy it as you never call out the thugs and bigots on yer side! You show the nation up!)

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

The fact your husband was abused is indicative of the fact that there are ignorant, xenophobic, and racist arseholes everywhere. Scotland is no different, and no serious person would ever try to credibly claim there is no such thing as anti-english abuse perpetrated by Scots.

What is ridiculous is the assertion that this is a phenomenon that only occurs because of the SNP, or the fact that some Scots desire Independence, or that it is what drives a wish for constitutional change, or that every single indi supporter is motivated by anti-English hate and indulges in it.

I've been abused for being a Scot countless times by English people. It doesn't particularly bother me because I'm rational enough to understand that there are idiots, bigots, and morons in every part of the world. What I don't immediately conclude, is that the people I was abused by MUST be unionists, or Tories, or that the abuse I received must stem from some sort of affiliation with or belief in a political movement. Some people are just arseholes, it really isn't any more complicated than that.

It's completely untrue that pro-Indi people 'never call out the thugs and bigots on 'your' side', but the statement itself is duplicitous because it implies that reasonable and decent pro-Indi people actually view the racists as being on their 'side'. We don't. I've called out the morons in Siol Nan Gaedheal umpteen times and I'm happy to do that every single time they rear their heads as their an embarrassment to anyone Scots, not just pro-indi people. The assertion that they are in any way representative of pro-indi people as a group is grossly offensive, because the counterpart to that would be asserting that Tommy Robinson, the EDL, Britain First, and so on, are representative of the views of all pro-union English people, and therefore their words and actions can be taken as representative of unionists in general, and therefore any unionist should be expected to apologise and answer for them.

Plainly ludicrous, but that's exactly what happens to perfectly decent Scots who support Indi. Why are we repeatedly associated with, and expected to answer for a group of fringe lunatics that are in no way associated with us and do not represent us?

Totally agree. She's a wee angry krankie. I can't wait until her term ends.