Totally agree with Sturgeon re the tories

[FayeGovan]

I destest them and their policies too

Good on her for telling it like it is

I know shes hated on mn, or rather on scotsnet. They prefer the tories there, christ knows why. Independence is a dirty word on scotsnet. So i know I'll be shot down, but i couldn't care less.

Good on you Nicola👍

I detest Nicola Sturgeon’s policies on women, TRANs and safeguarding for XX!!!

I agree with her and appreciate her honesty on the matter.

Nailed it 😀

Have you been hiding under a rock? I don't call a £3.5 billion decificit from their own miscalculation on how much tax they could generate by taking control of part of income tax and therefore relinquishing some aspects of grant to be small fry.

They were warned as well but called it scare mongering. Low and behold there aren't enough people working in Scotland that they had factored in and now there is a huge Blackhole.
If they can't count then yes it's fair to say it will be a financial disaster given they have already a 3.5 billion disaster of entirely their own making!

@MarshaBradyo

I do despise the tories. I grew up in a mining town (not white) and watched as every part of my family and community was culled. An Irish side of the family was a victim of Bloody Sunday & that left a hard mark. I was a victim of thatchers generation of greed. The south prospered. My maternal grandfather was jailed for trade unionism way back.

That said,
I don't feel Labour have been electable for a long time (ex Labour party member - left after iraq war) & weirdly I used to sneer at the snp (it's a Labour thing) until I started looking at it from a democratic deficit point of view.

Scotland do not vote in the same way as rUK does.

Since 1950 scotland has only voted for a majority of Tory MPs 6 years out of 73 years

They have got a Tory government 48 of those years.

I also believe in smaller more local government & accountability & I want to be able to vote elected officials out if they don't keep election promises.

Independence is about more than political alliance, a future independent scotland may well end up with a Tory government (tho I doubt it) but it will be the people voting who pay the price of the decisions made & can vote for change.

Scotland is unallowed to borrow yet said to have a deficit.

In actuality (in layman's terms) scotland collects taxes and revenues pays it into pot and is given back pocket money and westminster runs up debt on our behalf (quite often for items scottish people would not agree with nor benefit from)

I vote snp for now but I'm actually more economically left wing. I find policies a bit cautious but understandable under current governance issues with westminster power grab post brexit &'the duty to mitigate some of the worst Tory greed excesses.

I hope with all my heart for a Labour government for ruk but I'm done allowing scotland to be ruled by people we didn't vote for & their cruel callous decisions all because middle England voted Tory.

And it's got nothing to do with hating England or the English but some people make that difficult to keep up when they are so cavalier about the democratic wishes of a whole voting public of a (so called ) equal one quarter nation.

The "I don't care" " we the English will decide" attitudes and unwillingness to look st issues from our perspective at all is horrific.

I guarantee not a single English person would be happy with their lead government minister being ignored in the HoC or our overwhelming wish to remain in Europe being ignored or the trident being 20 miles from Oxford St. or billions of your money being spent on a fast train from say edinburgh to Inverness.

So I'm an independence supporter due to democracy & I'm a nicola sturgeon supporter because she's sober, sensible, shows up, (every single day during Covid) abided by the rules she set for others. Sacked her medical officer the same day she broke a rule.
She's given a lot of progressive policies to the poorest in society & is doing what she wrote on her prospectus - the one that got her voted in for the 4th time.
Do I agree with every decision she ever makes ? Nope. But is she head & shoulders above every leading politician in the UK. Yup

Do you need a history lesson? The sale of cattle to US by English landlords is well documented & the fields once used to grow vegetables and crops changes to feed cattle for sale causing food shortages & over reliance on English fruits & sugar. Do some independent research. Please.

What do you mean US?

You can't 'differ' with a hard fact.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_Angus
Here is a history of the breed. Totally Scottish and nothing to do with England at all. Exported all over the world.

I don't understand your conflation of 'Scotland and England' with differences of opinion on Scotland's constitutional future. They are not one and the same.

Besides, the issue long predates Nicola Sturgeon, and if she's 'divisive', the constant cry of unionists, then there must by definition be a divide. Clearly the opposite side of the divide is Unionism, so supporters and advocates of it are every bit as 'divisive' as the other side.

'Divisive' is yet another buzzword like 'separatist' that is thrown about in a wholly ineffectual attempt to slander one side of the debate. The most hypocritical aspect of it, is that it's commonly used by many of the people who advocated for the UK to leave the EU, which was one of the most 'divisive' events to occur in the UK in centuries, and they are quite happy to be 'separatist' themselves if it means being out of the EU.

Also, they apparently have no issue with the continuation of the UK, itself a state which 'divides' Ireland, and caused the 'separation' of that country. So yet again we have another example of the hilarious self-owning hypocrisy of Unionism.

'Our nationalism/separatism/divisiveness - good'

'Your nationalism/separatism/divisiveness - bad'

Again, it's nothing to do with England v Scotland, and it's puzzling why you view it through that prism to be quite honest.

Beachcity thanks for your answer but whilst I agree Labour have been unelectable for some time they are far ahead in the polls atm.

Granted things may change as polls aren’t fixed, but if they ran now they’d win. On that basis I wouldn’t rule them for next GE so I’m wondering if Labour winning changes the strongly pro independent views at all.

ie If Labour win does that change votes for those who say they despise Tories

I can see you feel strongly though so maybe Labour winning won’t change that now

The only thing that I’d be wary of is huge division especially if things become more difficult economically after independence. Obviously some feel it will be marvellous and better but it’s debatable. If it goes down hill it won’t be easy and anger will be there, but directed inwards instead at each other

Tbh if remain had won but the result was not accepted I’d be very unhappy (and probably raging at people not hearing no), I mean I had to accept yes.

@derxa

I can't baby you through this I'm sorry. Of course the breed is scottish. However the vast majority of land was owned by English landlord's & farmed by scottish tenants with little/no rights.
Aberdeen Angus were in huge demand worldwide particularly in southern USA
It made economic sense to the English landlords to use their land to grow crops to feed and house (for want of a better word ) cattle rather than food for the scottish people living & working on the land. A huge amount of these same landlords held swathes of fruit laden orchards and lands in England. Feeding their tenants with sugar high white breads & jams changed the scottish diet from a wheat, barley, oats & seafood & protein diet to a sugar based one had huge political & social & health impact that remains to this day.

Poor (aka greed) decisions of the landowners has cast long shadows on scottish health & diet & poverty. Old sons cast long shadows.

I notice you didn't comment on the Elgin marbles. 🤨

Fwiw we make whisky in Scotland. Not whiskey. 🥃

Ancient history. I care about today, and the massive threat the independence represents to those that appreciate living in economic stability with some form of welfare state. Ok, the Tories are trying to destroy that economic stability and welfare state, but that’s nothing - absolutely nothing - compared to what would happen under independence. It’s Brexit on steroids.

And the Elgin marbles should go back to Greece, obviously.

Thanks @MarshaBradyo

Yup too late for me. And scottish Labour is a different breed from uk Labour (sadly) for example I think Zarah Sultana MP marvellous & I adore mick lynch.

I hear you re accepting a vote, but as I said further up, there has been huge material differences since the 2014 referendum. Not least brexit. Scottish voters were told categorically to vote no to stay in EU and so on.
The pound is worthless and no one (I know) believes in the strong shoulders of the UK anymore.

Also at that time a lot of elderly people believed that the tories were the safe economic choice (remember all the "can we keep the pound Chat"

Much like brexit - & their big red bus. Lies were told & some folk not so clued up were fooled.

My daughter was 10 at last referendum now 18 - a new crop of voters want a say.

I'm not adverse to there being discussions around how long it would have to be before any other vote could take place. Or perhaps a second vote once details were hammered out etc

But democracy changes, its an ever moving sea. & the only thing we can go on is that the voting scottish public keep voting in a pro -independence government & councils & MP's.

Thatcher 🤮 herself said if scotland wants independence all they need do is return a majority of pro-indy MPs

A union should really be one in which all 4 are held in equal status & voices as noteworthy as others, otherwise it's not a union at all, but an occupation.
With the uk Prime Minister Vowing to ignore our elected FM. There's no way this can go on, I'm afraid.
Wales won't be far behind I'm sure.

On a lighter note have you heard Martin sheen on Welsh independence- Marvellous.

twitter.com/owswills/status/1386986004482072579?s=46&t=2obFwQKt7PqY-scZbrIQBA

You’re bonkers! Scotland would have exited the EU guaranteed if it had got independence in 2014. The no vote was the only thing that stopped that. Fact!

the fact that the UK left the EU afterwards is neither here nor there!

You’d have to politically illiterate to think Nicola Sturgeon does a good job. SNP’s record in office is disastrous. Even worse than the Tories.

And if you have children, you will be sorry as her policies actively put children in harm’s way.

Is that you Nicola?

@Fieldsofhay in your opinion. Not in the opinion of the scottish voting public who keep returning pro indy politicians in every single election.

Sorry that democracy is inconvenient for you.

I’d like a second chamber in Scottish politics.

If you think the SNP's record is worse than the tories over the last 12 years I would request you leave that rock you seem to be living under.

First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win.

Indy is coming.
Democracy will out.

I feel sorry for those so wrapped up & warped in your vitriol that you can't see that. But hey ho. It is what it is & the snp keep winning.
Namaste.

Thanks to the interesting thoughtful posters. Genuinely.

Laters.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McCombie
The main breeder of Aberdeen Angus. Not an English landlord at all. Aberdeenshire is famous for its cattle and sheep breeding and this continues to this day. You know nothing about agriculture in Scotland that's for sure.

@Roomytrouser not adverse to that as long as it bears zero resemblance to the ermine coated never voted gluttonous greed of the lords.

Filled with ordinary folk who've led exemplary lives or given to their country or sports or charities etc 🙌🏻 I'd back that.