Totally agree with Sturgeon re the tories

[FayeGovan]

I destest them and their policies too

Good on her for telling it like it is

I know shes hated on mn, or rather on scotsnet. They prefer the tories there, christ knows why. Independence is a dirty word on scotsnet. So i know I'll be shot down, but i couldn't care less.

Good on you Nicola👍

Another good reason for not liking SNP. All that idiot has done is drag Scotland through the mud. If she actually decided to focus on Scotland for a change and fix the problems, she may actually get more votes. I would if she could prove she was competent, but she's about as competent as my cat. So it's a no from me and won't vote SNP at all.

She is pretending to now, with the mental health problems, but the plans are so vague and shit it won't work. She's made alcoholism worse with the price system. We pay more tax in Scotland than the English do, 21% instead of 20. NHS is shit, police budget just got cut again, schools are shit and falling down. And all she cares about is independence and ruining women's rights. Great women there..

What do you mean by nationalism and why do you associate it with the snp?

Nationalism in the sense you are suggesting is abhorrent. That has nothing to do with the strive for independence from a union that no longer works.

The name is Scottish National Party (not nationalist ) no matter how many times people deliberately say it wrongly.

A country running its own affairs is the norm.

A union where one part does not want to be in the union is abhorrent.

Ok how do you envisage get border working? What type of controls do you see put in place

People are sold a line as with Brexit but the dull questions are avoided at our cost - as we’ve found out

So how do you see it working

Why don't we just abolish elections if you believe that voting once or twice settles the matter?

Don't be a silly Billy.

'Why don't we just abolish elections if you believe that voting once or twice settles the matter?'

Well why did the nats keep wanging on about it being a 'once in a generation' vote if they really meant to keep on holding refs willy nilly until they got the result they wanted??

How do all the the other EU non EU borders work?

They'd be normal passport control, customs, the existing FTA with the UK/EU would apply (or whatever replaces it) so we are left with whatever immigration controls both sides wish to have.

There isn't the historical political issues that there is with NI.

Its not the border, it would be the lack of financial institutions and a currency, that would take a long time to solve.

The Union is a grouping of free nations, if Scotland wishes to go it alone, its not for England to strong arm them into staying & denying a vote on the issue, i think Scotland, with all its natural resources, could be a real success and have as a pp said, charge UK for Trident to stay in Rosyth, England has no choice, no where else could go with huge expense/opposition which we don't have.

This. You lot did keep banging on saying it's once in a lifetime. Suddenly changed to once every year it seems, or at least that's what she's threatened. She knows it will be a no again hence why it's not happened.

But can't expect SNP to stick to what they say. Last time it was oil this and oil that, we will get all our money from oil. Now the oil industry has been abandoned and it's all renewable energy now. Apparently we are a leading country, that's a fucking laugh. And we are told to take public transport to save the planet, then she cuts it in half above Perth. Great idea again.

If a referendum can keep happening again and again, then why can't we do the Brexit one again? And like I say, if it's yes next time, do we vote again to check? Best out of 3? Or 5? It all seems a bit childish to be honest, accept you lost like we had to for Brexit, get over it and stop running the country into the ground.

Well, it's not, given the point is independence from Westminster, not a perpetual SNP government.

It's highly likely that if Scotland were to become indy that the SNP's stranglehold over scottish politics would diminish, given that a large % of voters vote for them purely on this one issue.

The SNP stood on a manifesto that had indyref2 front and centre and they absolutely strolled the election. What may and may not has been said in the past is irrelevant.

Like it or not, they absolutely have a mandate to persue a second vote.

'What may and may not has been said in the past is irrelevant.'

Well I can see it's inconvenient but it isn't irrelevant. If they lie about 'once in a lifetime only!' What else are they talking bollocks about hmm?

A lot, like the money they keep 'losing'. Probably conveniently in their bank accounts.

In the context of where we are now, yes it is irrelevant. Indyref2 was in the manifesto of the parties that now govern Scotland. This is how representative democracy works.

The no campaign's principle argument was that a "no" vote was the only way for Scotland to remain in the EU. How did that work out, hmm?

Except they didn't. It was a slogan.
"Dead in a ditch" anyone "Oven- ready" "education, education, education" from the man who made Iraq war his priority in gvmt

A slogan.

A stupid slogan used by firstly & primarily one person no longer in the party.

It was NEVER part of the Edinburgh agreement or white paper.

It had no official meaning.

But god it's convenient for anti-democracy types to drag out again & again.

Well it technically was. You have no idea if the EU will let you in or not if Scotland applies as an independent country. There's other countries waiting on the list, and you will be starting from scratch on meeting their requirements, something others waiting are not. And there's certain countries not happy about letting Scotland join.

Staying with the UK was a more certain way of staying in the EU. But a referendum was then held as the rest of the UK wanted to, and as a democracy we voted to leave. That's how democracy works, it's the majority that win. As I say, we haven't done a best out of 3 for Brexit, is that the plan for independence? Or just keep wasting millions each time rather than spend the money on fixing problems?

'It had no official meaning'

It wasn't a legal term correct, but we all heard it repeatedly. Once in a generation my arse. Every few years til they get what they want and that's not counting the constant talking about it inbetween.

Nicola should try to focus on health, education and drugs deaths instead of fanning her own ego.

People here, maybe i should say 'you lot' like @ILikeHotWaterBottles above in their reasoned, articulate post (NOT) always confuse wanting independence with wanting a perpetual SNP government. Many people, including me, would be more than willing to take the chance of independence and seeing how it goes. It can't be worse than what we have, the majority of voters being governed by a party they would never vote for. For years and years.

We will get independence one day, its just a matter of time. The insults and level of intelligence some posters here are showing dont help the no side at all.

@LookingAtYou you've heard it repeatedly from tories and Labour & a unionist media. No wonder you're sick of hearing it we all are.

Unsurprisingly the only people using it on this thread are you guessed it - unionists. Quelle surprise

Well no, we heard it from the nats repeatedly in 2014. Folk now are just reminding them of what they said. They don't like being reminded of the bollocks they spout though do they.

@LookingAtYou that's just not true, it was an election slogan. That's it. A slogan.

As stated previously there have been so so so many. 😄

Yes. That is how democracy works. Which was exactly my point.

The SNP stood on a manifesto explicitly stating that they will hold another independence referendum. They won the election convincingly along with the greens and so get to persue that agenda.

Like or not, enough Scots want out of the union to warrant another vote.

I'd have a look at the size of the UK's deficit and how much bigger it is going to get before you start using that argument as one against independence.

Getting out of the union probably represents Scotland's best chance at enconomic prudence.

@ILikeHotWaterBottles

Yes, you're absolutely correct, we don't know if scotland will be allowed to join the EU as an independent country.
We don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. It depends.

Do you know what I do know? What we all know?

There is NO chance of getting in the EU as part of the union. ZERO condemned to be stuck with little englanders.

I'll take my chances (and there is a chance) with Independence.

I wonder. And I wonder if any Mumsnet users would be honest.

This probs won't apply to tories but to those who are/think themselves progressive

Even if you're anti Independence/anti snp

Imagine - 10 years time if scotland achieve indy and all going ok and are allowed back into the EU and rUK still being run/ruined by tories.

Would you move to scotland. ?

The border problem that we have now in Ireland stems from one country being in the single market and one not. When this happens checks have to be made as to the quality of goods being moved - extensive checks have to be made for some items.

this costs money and causes delays, and no, is not getting better over time! So a single market / non single market border between the rUK and Scotland would be an extremely bad this for both nations economies.

But the SNP could equally validly have a manifesto commitment to build a wall between the US and Mexico. They have the legal ability to do neither - as todays waste of money at the Supreme Court will show - mandate or not.