Furious they've made my son sit alone at lunch

[Mummyto2BBs]

My 4 year old is currently waiting for an assessment for autism/adhd. He has really been struggling at primary school - hitting out at the teacher and having meltdowns in the afternoon. They are doing a risk assessment on him and have contacted the school psychologist to come and visit him, as well as going back to a 12oclock finish instead of 2pm.
I have been more than happy to work with them and had thought they were doing everything they could for my son but my niece (primary 7 at the same school) has informed me that on Wednesday she saw one of the classroom assistants bend down to talk to him and then took him away from his friends at the lunch table and made him sit at a separate table alone. Special needs or not I think its a f*cking disgrace to make any child sit alone at lunch.
Am I being unreasonable for being downright pissed off? I plan on speaking to his teacher about this tomorrow.

YABU
You don't know why he was sitting on his own. If the TA was bending down, it doesn't sound like he was in trouble.

So, he doesn't have a statement yet or statemented hours for a TA?

Lots of schools in NI are completely overwhelmed with sen children in P1 without statements and are struggling to cope. The don't have the staff to be giving time individually to children unless they are statemented.

If the school are good with sen which sounds like they are if they have a sensory room, then it is a very last resort to reduce hours if the child isn't coping.

Schools also have limited ability each year to statement children as they are only given a small number of educational psychology hours so your child must be on the more severe end behavioural wise for the school to prioritise him. I don't say this to be mean as I have 2 statemented children myself.

If summer born Id seriously consider deferring P1 place which would give time to get statement in place and TA provision. He may benefit from another year at nursey if you can get a late place

Diagnosis of ASD and ADHD in NI and waiting lists is NHS not Education Authority. The 4 years wait for diagnosis ASD is NHS - you need to approach GP and be on your Health Trusts waiting list.

Statementing is carried out by the Education Authority - educational Psychologist. You need to clarify with the school if they have started the process of statutory assessment, if not you can apply yourself through EA website below.
www.eani.org.uk/parents/special-educational-needs-sen

Most importantly have a really good talk with the school and ask if they think mainstream provision is suited for him as educational psychologist will ask you this. Check out what provision is available in your area such as units and special schools. Mainstream may not be the most conducive environment for his learning. He may be suited better to a unit in a mainstream setting or a more specialist setting.

Also check out these links which are NI specific
senac.co.uk/
childrenslawcentre.org.uk/
www.autism.org.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9cuFrJfW-gIVC-ztCh22DwodEAAYASAAEgLt2fD_BwE

Even at secondary school some children with autism prefer to sit away from others and, although the schools would usually like everyone to sit together (for staffing reasons apart from anything else), they do sometimes let them sit separately if things have become too overwhelming. At least that way the child will be able to eat without worry. Schools are very noisy places.

If your child is being violent and hurting the other children, or being disruptive and disturbing the other children, then YABU and the teacher/assistant has done the right thing in moving your child.
We have a child like this and they consistently try to attack the other children. As a result the other children have been moved away for their own safety.
I know nothing about you, but from a teachers point of view, please don’t be one of those parents who are in denial about the problems and dangers that your child could potentially pose to other children. Hear the teacher out, and actually listen to what they have to say.
In our case we have a lot of other kids to keep safe. That has to take priority over the disruptive child being lonely at lunch.

It is not meeting his needs SCHOOL would have worked with his pre sch/nursery and known about the SEN.
This breaks my heart - I thought this was my own Dd writing about my darling GS but it’s not but does in fact mirror the treatment my DGs received at his School and they didn’t tell my DD, she found out from his Brothers at the Sch!!!
my DGS is non verbal and we have to trust he is being treated well and that his needs are being met. Queue lots of meetings with the Sch; they said but he likes it outside (alone ) and Dd replied along the lines that isn’t acceptable… the Sch hadn’t taken on his one to one and they didn’t start until 2 weeks into the Term.
The Sch have a duty of care and I would ask to see their SEN policy and ask how they are going to support the child.

My DGS was not changed one day and when my DD discovered this she asked why the next day and was told there weren’t changing facilities for him - I can’t tell you what my darling DD said to this - but my DGS is being changed now!
we have to give these little ones a chance, they need routine and for example we think our little one will master toileting but needs to be taken and given the opportunity, etc…
At meetings to ask what the sch are doing to support your child I would mention Ofsted and the Board of Governors at the Sch and I’m sure you will see opportunities for your DC are increased.
Everyone who doesn’t have a child with Special Educational Needs should be kind and keep an open mind as life is tough and they don’t walk in our or indeed our DC’s shoes…
💔

OP I’m unsure if this has already been stated but you would have been better off posting this in the Special Needs threads

Take a deep breath and then contact the school to find out what happened and why. I understand this is hard, but please don't rely on the word of a 7 year old without any context. Your son may have asked to move or may have been getting overwhelmed. I'm sure the school will be happy to discuss.

@Mummyto2BBs i totally get you want to make sure your DS is cared for and happy at school. It would be very reasonable to approach the school and ask why he was sat alone for lunch. At the point you get a response act accordingly. Right now based on your use of tone and language it does sort of come across as aggressive when you don’t have a full story. I hope that you resolve the situation and that your DS is ok.

Can’t believe this kind of behaviour from teachers is still happening in 2022. You ought to take it to the papers

Are you a daily fail troll by any chance?

What happened when you spoke to the school today op?

What a nonsensical post. Different schools are different sizes.

@44PumpLane what a ridiculous comment! He might have bitten the child next to him... and she would def have been told that.

Seriously, if you know nothing about neurodiversity, stay quiet! Some kids are biters, but they're not all def ASD! I actually haven't even heard of a child with ASD biting.

OP I'd be really miffed too. But gp in with a cool head and ask what happened, it might be he wanted to move. If it's not what he wanted play merry hell on their heads.

Good luck.

One word of advice, do not let them medicate your child with pharmaceuticals that can mess with his hormones eg anti depressants. My son had significant probs following anti depressants. He is diagnosed ASD, is super bright, has friends, a job plus developing business etc. Nurturing kids def works!

Hi op sorry you are getting a hard time here. The little boy is 4….of course his mum is going to be upset at the thought of him being separated and eating alone in front of all the other children…so she comes on mumsnet to have a little rant. In the real world I’m sure she will behave like a grownup and talk rationally with the school. When you get a chance check out insta autismmattyand_me (NI mum) and
www.middletownautism.com/
unfortunately kids in NI can’t defer until a bit older.
waiting times are horrendous here but tbh the best advice I can give is get proactive about educating yourself and your husband because that’s what will really help your son…early intervention….simple techniques that can make such a difference. And actually a lot of what you learn is brilliant for all children 🤗

I've come to the painful realisation recently that I can only safely discuss my child's behaviour and school issues with professionals, other SN parents or on the SN/SEN boards. If you post there, you'll have an easier conversation.

Agreed 😉

I am sorry about the pile on OP. Some people seem to really enjoy it. Your post was so benign, you didn’t deserve this 💐

My DD is currently undergoing assessments for ADHD and autism and it is a very difficult road to navigate. She is starting to get left out by her peer group and regularly tells me she gets left out and has to play on her own as no one will play with her. It is heartbreaking. It's a bit better now my DS is at the same school as her because he adores her and he will always play with her, so I understand totally where you are coming from OP. I agree with calmly talking to the teacher to find out what happened and go from there.

I think that it’s easy to jump to conclusions but without the full facts it could just be unnecessarily upsetting for you. Nobody likes to think of their child being on their own when they haven’t wanted to be so your feelings are totally understandable.
However, without details about why he was in his own and what the TA went to do after they placed your son away from other children we can’t draw any conclusions. Your niece may have seen your son sitting alone but the TA may have needed to step away to sort out something else that needed priority attention. 🤷🏼‍♀️
It’s not ideal for children to miss out on school. However, you seem realistic about how what’s appropriate for your son my not match the full school day. I don’t think that is discrimination, but meeting his needs. I also think that there is an obligation to meet the needs of all the other children who may be hurt/intimidated/fearful of a child who feels the urge to hit out. It can be a difficult balance to get right.

I hope you get the answers you need.

44PumpLane what a ridiculous comment! He might have bitten the child next to him... and she would def have been told that.

Seriously, if you know nothing about neurodiversity, stay quiet! Some kids are biters, but they're not all def ASD! I actually haven't even heard of a child with ASD biting

@Dibbydoos oh do fuck off!! I have one child with ADHD and possible ADD thank you very much!! At the point I wrote my comment the OP had literally been told NOTHING by the school, she had simply been told by her young neice of something she witnessed across the lunch hall.

My comment was literally to say to the OP she needed more info before taking things further, there was no accusation and my comment wasn't ridiculous thank you....as others have also subsequently said, OP needs more info as anything may have happened to prompt the move.

I find it a bit odd that you're taking a year 7s word for what happened who only observed from a distance and then asking mumsnet rather than speaking to the school. Especially as it sounds like they have been doing everything alright so far. Even if the teaching assistant got it wrong there's no need to go crazy. But you'll probably find there was a bit more to it. Just calmly call the school find out what happened and take it from there. You could also try to find a way to keep cool because sadly for you this interaction won't be the first and keeping calm will be critical for your own resilience and your child's best interests.

I suggest you go and talk to the school. Ask about their reasoning to put him sitting alone, tall about why you think yhat is unhelpful, work together on a way forward for him ...at the very least if the classroom assistant has got it wrong then they will be aware and can have a chat

My son is autistic and his primary school started making him go home at lunch time, I contacted the autistic society and they said the school were discriminating against his disability. I would call the AS and ask them about it. The school should be putting things into place for him not sending him home early.

You know, it's funny - I had an incident with a student hugging others at lunch just last week!

I'm 100% sure he thought he was just being friendly. But the first little girl did NOT want to be hugged. He was rough about it, standing up and squeezing her head hard against his chest, and it hurt her. Additionally, he didn't put down his spoon first and he got yogurt in her hair.

My TA and I intervened. She got the girl cleaned up and I spoke to the boy about appropriate lunchtime behaviour. I also warned him that if he couldn't follow the lunchroom rules, he would have to eat alone.

He left the girl alone after that, but starting hugging a little boy soon after. He had a runny nose at this point and wiped it on that boy's neck, getting snot on him. The second boy was horrified and started to cry.

So we had to move the hugger. He had been warned of that consequence and the other children were now upset and not eating,

This isn't your son, OP. We talked with the parents that afternoon and explained our rational, which I wish your school staff had done with you. But there as really not a lot else we could have done there to ensure that everyone got a safe and happy lunchtime. We don't have enough staff on duty to lose an adult to a permanent seat at one table to supervise.