To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

Was he at school nursery? What interventions have they put in place for him? Permanent exclusion is the absolute last resort so it's quite shocking that they're threatening that 5 weeks in!

If he’s hurting others they have a duty to keep those children safe. Do you know the procedure they have to follow to exclude? Are they following that? Does your child have any additional needs? Have the school shared what strategies they have tried!

More information needed (but probably not a good idea in this context in case it gets picked up by a journalist). It must be more than ‘poor behaviour’.

What have the school said to you?
has he been assessed for any additional needs?

Seems a bit early but it may be needed, if he is hurting others the school have a duty of care for them. Other children deserve a right to an education and it may be your son needs 1:1 or an assessment, they should be suggesting that more than exclusion

If he is hurting other children, yes, this should be happening.

State school or private?

Has he just entered full time education?

What behaviour is it?

What strategies are they putting in place for him ,are there any concerns that there maybe any special needs etc?

Are they using the term permanent exclusion, or are they suggesting that he should be in a different setting?

Depends on the behaviour, the effect it’s having on others and what they’ve tried so far.

It sounds like your school don't have a clue what they are doing. Ask them what strategies they are using. They need to step in before your son gets to the point of hurting other children. Threatening exclusion is hardly going to change his behaviour, he's 5!

If he was in my kids class and was a threat, then yes, he should be excluded but there are many things that could be tried beforehand. Reduced timetable, one to one time, play sessions to explore feelings. Sounds like he needs assessing for behavioural, social emotional issues.

Well as a teacher whose been on the receiving end of a five year with ‘poor behaviour’ I say good for the school. Having to evacuate your class because a five year old is pelting chairs at other children and ramming you, isn’t acceptable.
And for everyone who says what’s being put in place the answer will be probably nothing!

You wouldn't get to make that decision.

It is unlikely that a 5 year old would go from nothing to a permanent exclusion (unlike an older child who may do a 1 off but serious thing)

What has the background been since he started in pre-school/nursery?
Has he had any SEND assessments?

On the other side, my DS is in a very small class with an incredibly violent and aggressive 5 year old. He has random outbursts of violence and attacks children and teachers alike.
I would like to see him go to a more suitable setting after the last time he assaulted my son and the teacher that stopped him ended up in hospital.

How is he hurting the others? What’s he doing/how often? How were things at preschool?

What have the school actually said? What do they want to happen-are they saying he his high needs which would be better met at a special school?

Do you have concerns about his SEMH? Have you discussed a referral to a paediatrician for an assessment?

He is violent towards other children, so clearly he's not safe to be in a classroom with them. What alternative provision there might be will depend on the school and the child's needs. There's a lot of information missing here for people to be able to give you detailed advice, but the bottom line is that it's reasonable to exclude someone who is a danger to others.

Perhaps time to approach your GP and local authority to get in the system for assessments and support. Sounds like the school will be on board with that!

Why not ?
Did nobody think to get the educational psychologist in or an outreach service ,start the ball rolling for assessment of the child ??

This happened to my sibling in the first week, my mum immediately moved them to another school. Sib didn’t exactly thrive but they got to the end of school in that one.

He’s in state primary.

He went to a day nursery since he was 2. I raised the behaviour there, and pushed for further assessment, but had no success. They said that they did not want to label him.

Now he’s at school and not coping very well. Of course I totally understand that if he is being disruptive and hurting others, then the other children must be protected.

So far (as far as I know), they’ve tried:
Gentle reinforcing of school values
Positive reinforcement
Going to a senior member of staff
Sitting away from his peers
Taking break time away
Most of the day in isolation

His behaviour:
Hitting (3 times)
Chasing after his peers
Biting

Depends if he’s putting other children at risk of harm. They can’t risk other children being physically attacked. He must have significant needs which is sad for him.

Most of those things are consequences for AFTER the behaviour. What are they doing to PRVENT it? Trying to identify triggers for these incidents that many indicate the issue, reducing sensory input and demand? Requesting input from an educational psychologist or STIPPS? Referring to CAMHS for assessment if they feel there are additional needs?