To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

I was going to say they're being unreasonable because they haven't tried internal exclusion, but I see from your update that they have. From a teacher's perspective, he must be a safeguarding risk to other pupils and staff. If internal exclusion hasn't worked, I think permanent exclusion is their only choice. Was he abusive to the staff members in his internal exclusion? Usually it's led by a one-to-one TA in a meeting room so it sounds like they couldn't cope, which is a bit baffling.

It must be awful for you going through this. My son is the same age and I can't begin to imagine how difficult this is for you xx

Off-rolling by stealth, a tactic many of us parents of children with SEN and/or SN can spot a mile off.

On the one hand, there are lots of strategies that should be tried in school before getting to permanent exclusion.

On the other hand, some children do need the better staffing ratios and expertise offered in a special school, and sometimes it takes exclusion to trigger this option being offered. I wonder whether exclusion also gets quicker Educational Psychologist involvement.

Sometimes, so much time is spent trying in-school options that the special school option comes rather too late. However I'm surprised if they're actually considering permanent exclusion this soon; five weeks is still settling-in time, really.

Ask for an appointment to talk about what's going on, what they've tried, whether they've managed to identify any triggers, whether they suspect any neurodivergence. What would happen if he were excluded? Exclusion might be in the best interests of the other children; what is in his best interests?

It's such a long and consulted process that, quite frankly, it would be depressing and demoralising to read right now. Like telling a first time pregnant woman they're going to be sitting on a donut cushion for weeks and will absolutely trash their vagina giving birth.

I meant *convoluted - the SEN boards on here can really help her out, I post there regularly.

The other kids have more of a right to not be hurt.

Not wanting to "label" a child is really unhelpful. This little boy has grown up through Covid, and is now showing people he can't cope with a school environment. Assuiming you aren't a family with no standards where everyone behaves like this at home and doesn't care, then it would not be at all surprising if he has some kind of SEN.

The question I always ask is "what is making him so anxious?"

It’s terrifying that a child of five yrs old is considered dangerous enough to be excluded.
There must be very poor and threatening behaviours for this to be happening.
The other children need keeping safe.

No, every child has an equal right to access education. The rights of one child do not trump another and equality is a core value in all education settings.

It sounds like they’re left with little choice. Not sure what it is you want them to do? It’s an awful predicament to be in but ultimately his need to be in school cannot trump the safety, well-being and learning of other children. You’re child is important - but not more important than all the other children put together. His violence will be massively impacting their school experience in a negative way and drain adult resourcing.

The school should be putting a support plan in place to help encourage better behavior and how to handle the classroom, some kind of reward system, rather than just the consequences for bad behavior.

Permanent exclusion is a bit much so soon in, especially as there is no way assessments have gone through in that time. They need to have grounds for exclusion and show they have put things in place to support him.

I will say, some schools throw this term around in the hopes it scares the parents into moving the child themselves.

I work in exclusion. The behaviours you have described, if happening in EYFS, wouldn't meet the threshold for PEX. You need to push harder for them to do more assessments. They (and you) need to consider his additional needs and he should be covered under the Equality Act (2010).
You can DM me if you want further advice

Permanent exclusion doesn’t necessarily result in quicker EP involvement than remaining on the roll of the MS and applying for an EHCNA.

I’m not surprised!

Little choice? There are hundreds of things they could do that they haven't done. Hundreds.

Its heartbreaking to see how many bastards would be happy and willing to write off a 5 year old little boy who's hardly had chance to settle into school yet .

Bollocks. The right of kids not to be hurt trumps a right to education.

Not surprised that he's being threatened with exclusion for hitting, chasing, and biting? Have you ever met EYFS children or worked with them? These are not unusual behaviours for the age group.

But as a teacher on the receiving end she is entitled to have an opinion.

The law says otherwise. All children have a right to access education and to receive equal treatment.

I'm a primary headteacher.

It's not absolutely inappropriate - I'd look at this if the child were a real risk to other children - ie in need of medical attention - a child who is hitting others over the head with a hard object for example could cause a serious, permanent injury and schools do have a duty of care for other children; possibly also a child who is in permanent "attack" mode and spends all day hitting, biting kicking. It's a difficult decision - sometimes it's right for the child (if they access a specialist, therapeutic placement); sometimes not but necessary for the other children's safety.

BUT

If we're not talking at that level (not convinced we are from your description), you can take one of two things from that conversation. In reality, there are:
(i) schools, often small/rural/well-to-do who meet children with this level of need very infrequently and really, genuinely don't know what to do with him
and
(ii) schools who aren't particularly committed to inclusion and try to engineer each cohort to get rid of those children who don't fit their "high standards". It's awful, but happens.
In either scenario, this isn't the right place for your child, since they're not going to support him effectively. The school may well be pushing for you to move him elsewhere, which is wrong, but equally may be right for your child. I think you may have strong grounds for fighting exclusion, but do you really want him to be in a place which doesn't want him or doesn't know how to work with children like that?

And finally ...

I've met many Reception children like this in a 20-odd year career ... there's usually one in every cohort in a city school. I remember meeting someone who had taught one of my Y6 children in Reception in a different school, and she described extraordinary behaviours (i specifically remember biting and climbing tall cupboards). He was perfectly behaved by Y6. Some of them do just grow out of it - it's an adjustment to other children thing; others are diagnosed with something and respond to individual support in whatever form it takes. Don't despair yet!

Isn't it?

OP, I would ask for your thread to moved either to the SN board or the Education board as posters on AIBU tend to be a bit rabid about these issues and would happily write a 5yr old off as a "wrong 'un" rather than recognising them as a child in need of support.

Permanent exclusion at that age is rare but it isn't unheard of.

The school have to balance their duty of care to your son with their duty if care to the rest of the students.

If the shoe was on the other foot and it was your child being out at daily risk by another kid how would you feel?

Your child needs help rather than threats and punishment. I would be looking at a new school first and then getting him an assessment and getting him support. I work with children with behavioural issues and am shocked that your son (and you) are being judged.

They should be helping you to get your child assessed.
Ask them to get an urgent rd psych report because once you leave ms without a ehcp you won't get in another school!

Try and work with them to get extra support to watch him and safe guard the other children .

His behaviour must be very bad for them to suggest being excluded so early on!