To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

Leah are you in Wales? In Wales they have IDPs instead of EHCPs. SNAPCymru can help.

If you are in England, and the school are calling their SEN Support plans IDPs you can apply for an EHCP yourself. IPSEA and SOSSEN have lots of helpful information on their websites including model letters. As X2boys posted, there’s SENDIASS but some are better than others - some are helpful but others repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

If you post your own thread on the SN boards you will get advice on the process.

I'm in Wales. Hes got an IDP. I have been in touch with SnapCymru, they have recommended for the Local authority to take over really

You need to ask for a review of the IDP because it clearly isn’t meeting DS’s needs and needs amending. And I agree with SNAPCymru, DS’s needs are beyond the school’s capability.

Apologies @Tessabelle74 my subsequent post did say I wasn’t condoning serious injury at all and I got a bit carried away with coming from the experience of a lot of children with additional needs having very little support. I’m not talking about your child. I had children in mind including incidents of parents at my child’s school who spoke really horribly about a child with significant SEN who was difficult to manage but never caused serious injury to anyone (there were minor incidents) and had a lot stacked against him socially. He was aged 5 the school were really trying and the things people said about him were awful including one mother starting to say ‘that little shit is probably why little sally has been upset about going to school this week’. That wasn’t at all accurate and was where the precious darling comment was coming from. I really do apologise for seeming attacking or uncaring. Other children I have in mind are those with significant special needs being teased to the point of then causing major disruption being punished and given the extent of learning needs unable to say that they had been provoked until calm the next day or parents desperate to find another school and being ostracised and excluded at collection when they are also at the end of their tether. A parent I spoke to used to pretend they couldn’t speak English due to being so upset at peoples attitudes towards her and her child (not harming other children). There are schools that do their utmost to understand and accommodate and promote inclusion and often (not always) behavioural difficulties are mitigated at least in part or better contained in these settings. The contrast between schools with similar resources and different approaches can be really marked. Sometimes everyone is working towards a more suitable place and one isn’t available so it’s not that the situation is being ignored. Everyone’s needs have to be addressed and the school is failing your child and the other child in this situation. Apologies my last post was triggered by a lot of experience related to these contexts and not condoning children being harmed. If it was my child who had harmed someone or been harmed I would of course be distressed and I really am not devoid of empathy I’m just tired of seeing the impact on all kids of a system that hasn’t got enough to give and trying to advocate for children to be better understood. I’m really sorry that your little one had to endure such a traumatic experience and sorry for not being more sensitive to your and others experiences it was about attitude not condoning genuine risk and subsequent trauma.

At the end of the day, as parents it’s our own kids we are looking out for! if your own child is being harmed by another child, then whether it’s diagnosed sen or bad behaviour and awful parents, it really doesn’t matter, as the result is the same!

Sorry, but those are mostly shit ways to manage a 5 year old’s behaviour.

He needs child led learning with a 1-1, rather than being isolated as a punishment.

He’s five ffs!

Ask to meet the teacher and the Senco. Ask them if they are linked to another school with more experience to see if someone can observe and suggest strategies, are they doing any 1:1 work, can they invite an Ed psych in to assess.

You should be concerned your son is hurting other children

Has he been assessed for SEN? If not get that going asap and move forwards

I have a son with sn who did 3 years in MS school. Had he been aggressive there is no way I'd have allowed him to be there . The other children deserve to have their education in a safe space !!

If he’d been aggressive what would you have done? Pulled him out and home educated for the next 13 years so he gets no better at how to control emotions and socially interact

@Morph22010
I had my sons Ehcp in place when he was 3 so no I wouldn't have .
I started looking at MS schools when he was 2 and had everything in place for him..

I absolutely would not allow my son to hit other NT children just so he could attend MS school no !

It's not their fault my son has SN !

My son wasn’t diagnosed with autism until he was 6 as it wasn’t really obvious until he got into year one so when it started reception we just sent him to the local mainstream. We were initially turned down for an ehcp as la said mainstream could meet needs even though they weren’t able to already and he was having meltdowns and hitting out and being excluded. We appealed and eventually got the ehcp in year 3 and then specialist in year 4 after another fight. He’s now in an asd school and they do a lot of work on managing emotions, social situations etc etc. if I had pulled him out in year one when things first escalated and home schools he wouldn’t be getting any of this intervention that will hopefully help him in the future. Your situation is very different as you had the choice of specialist from the outset but if you didn’t know your child has Sen until they started mainstream it’s very difficult to get them out and into specialist even with a ton of evidence. Wait for tribunal is now a year, it was much shorter thankfully back when we appealed

Why should the other kids suffer one badly behaved child’s behaviour?

From another point of view, my child is 5 and if another child was hurting him at school I’d be absolutely furious if that child was NOT permanently excluded.

It is NOT the fault of the child- the school are not managing his needs.

I work with a child who was treated in the way the OP’s has been at one school. She was only allowed to attend for the morning session because she was deemed too disruptive. She’s now in another mainstream school, and we aren’t seeing any of the behaviours documented at the first school because her needs are being respected and managed.

Behaviours were: biting, running away, hitting, kicking, not accessing any learning.

Totally gone, with the correct support, and she is thriving.

Zombie thread! Why has it been resurrected now? The OP left very early in the thread originally as well.

All behaviour is communication and I'd question the school and previous nurseries skill in being able to meet the needs of this child and others like him. Obviously this behaviour is an additional support need, in itself. No need for any diagnosis but behaviour like this is a problem, so what's the need/needs. No way has this just become an issue. The nursery should have feedback issues with how the child manages. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a private school as they are often terrible at dealing with children who don't fit the mould and as a result often don't accept ASN kids. OP needs to get much more info. This child needs support.

This makes me fume!
Wrong approach completely. This child is crying out to have u met needs addressed. It could be any number of root causes but he needs accommodated 1:1 or 2:1 for large parts of the day, out of the busy environment of class which he can't cope with. He needs to be self directed in preferred play for 95% of the day. He is not developmentally ready for academics. Help should be directed to his well being, coping strategies, moving around outside, having sensory time in quiet, dark non stimulating room or outside on a scooter or climbing wall. Is this England?

Agree with @Sue20

@Morph22010 maybe yes my situation was different but I still wouldn't allow my child to hit other children !

What sort of support stopped the behaviour?

Child led learning. Not making her go into situations she historically couldn’t handle. We just felt our way forward. Lots of positivity and praise. Loads of movement breaks and outdoor learning (chalking phonics and maths onto the playground). She has started to interact positively with other children, even offering comfort when they’re hurt. It all has to be modelled by the adults. She is now flying with her learning, both academically and socially. I’ve been working with her for just three months. It was always in there, she just didn’t know how to access it.

I had to listen for her ‘language’- she communicates in her own way and responds to certain tones of voice and body language.

Children act the way she was when they’re confused and frustrated, not because they’re bad.

But when you are not there you can’t actually stop it

I'm not quite sure where people think DCs should go to school if they are unlucky enough to show aggressive behaviour.
Are they supposed to live in a box for the next 13 years and never meet another child?

Unlucky enough to show aggressive behaviour? The "unlucky" ones are the teachers and the nice well-behaved children who have to put up with these horrors at school.

I'm not quite sure where people think DCs should go to school if they are unlucky enough to show aggressive behaviour.

Aggressive behaviour is a choice not a misfortune