To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

I would be phoning the LA or anyone who could help/advise eg ADHD support groups, Ed Psyches or similar before exclusion if possible as getting any relevant diagnoses can take time and he shoukdnt be without a setting for that long.
I might even phone a lawyer as if he is sen they surely shouldn't be excluding him but have a duty of care in a state school at least.

@EL8888 @Prinnny all children should be safe and able to access education, it is not the OPs sons fault that he is at a school that doesn’t have the capability of supporting him. Most SEND children are able to mainstream with the correct support, whilst it’s not ideal he has hit others three times in five weeks it’s something that happens especially in reception between all children.

Have a day off will you?

No-one here has suggested he should be allowed to ffs

They are using the term permanent exclusion

That is inappropriate in this situation, and I would have serious doubts about their competence if they have gone straight to that without discussing assessment of needs.

What’s he like at home?

@KL29 @Sierra1961 the lack of empathy and compassion is astounding

I’ve seen violent 5 year olds in the classroom whilst on teaching practice many moons ago.

The background of the child was absolutely horrific, and we all had sympathy for the child & their parent, but there is a limit to what teachers can do in a class with a 30:2 ratio & a child who is throwing chairs, biting, punching & kicking every day. Sadly it was learned behaviour from a violent parent.

It was truly heartbreaking..

I’m not suggesting that your child has picked up this behaviour in the home, far from it. Some children need specialist support on a 1:1 basis that a standard school can’t give. There are many children for whom a standard 30:2 class just isn’t the right place for them, and many complex reasons why some children are violent. Sometimes it’s not about cause & effect like the example above.

Unfortunately there is a duty of care to everyone in the class & and exclusion is the only way forward. However, make this a starting point to take every opportunity offered to support you & your son & give him the professional help he needs, whether it’s from the local authority, health services or SENCO in their next school (if they’re called that now, I’ve been out of the service for years).

Not true, some kids have just never been given boundaries. Not saying that's the case for this child, but some kids are just badly brought up - not diagnosed with anything.

I have one in mainstream and one in specialist. The one in specialist would push/hit if he had to be in a mainstream class because the setting would be way too busy, noisy and confusing for him. He copes well in a class of eight with 4/5 members on hand to support and has very few behavioural incidents, I could count them since he started in Year R on one hand (and he's in Year 3 now). If he were in mainstream there would've been hundreds.

None of them would've been his fault, he just wouldn't have had the support he needs. It sounds like your child also needs a lot more support. Buckle up OP because getting it is a rollercoaster ride. The right setting will be life changing, for both of you. It's worth the hassle.

This bit is very hard but the earlier the intervention the better and When you see your son so happy in a school that supports his current needs and prepares him for integration back into mainstream. You will be too. Ex esbd teacher

I'm surprised they are talking about permanently excluding him so soon instead of a reduced timetable. Many children do better having a much shorter day at school.

OP please don’t take to heart what lots of posters are saying about other children being safe from harm. That is absolutely true but it is the job of the adults in school to support your son. If he is struggling with behaviour there are many things they should be doing well before exclusion was even mentioned to you.
If I was you I would:

• contact your GP and ask for their advice
• Ask to have a formal meeting with the SENCo and ask what strategies they will be putting in place to support. What referrals they are planning on making and what you can do to support the process. Make sure they know your child and can tell you his strengths as well as challenges. Have they completed a learning pathway, has he got a key adult. Are they doing interventions with his to support appropriate behaviour
• Contact the local council and ask about the process for EHCP and who they can put you in touch with who can give you further information.
• post on the SEN boards on here as they will have invaluable advice.

keep calm but be your sons tiger mother don’t let them exclude him. Very last resort should be a managed move but only if all relationships have broken down. Happy to PM if you want.

All behaviour is communication, what have the school actually done to try and identify his needs and support him?

obviously yes he can’t be allowed to physically hurt people but he’s 5 FFS not 15. What other plans are the education authority proposing for his education?

Sorry @berksandbeyond but I don't believe that at all. Children are a product of their ancestry and environments. Something in their DNA or their upbringing will have caused the behaviour. There is no such thing as 'just a badly behaved kid'.

I led on behaviour in inner London comps in my previous career, so I do know a little bit about this. Have a Masters too. Bad behaviour is the symptom. Not the disease.

He hasn’t been in school long and they haven’t even bothered putting in proper measures to support him!
The senco needs to be involved so the school and get an IEP sorted and they need to get a referral going or at least support OP in getting the ball rolling, his needs are being neglected which has resulted in him becoming distressed enough to take it out on others.

Just to add to my previous post & echoing other posters, having an Educational Psychologist involved would be a wise idea. As I said before, there can be many complex reasons why a child is violent that an EdPsych would be able to help with.

Unless we know more which I totally understand we can’t because that your prerogative we can’t really no what to suggest past a certain point and for different view points.is it because of trauma.abuse.their inadequacy etc
have you had meetings with the school.have you got help outside of school or had any diagnosis from a gp?
what do you think should happpen?
what the bad behaviour apart from the obvious physical harm he’s causing?
what’s he like at home?

@crumpetswithjam thats great, but it might be more helpful to the op if you could describe the process you went through with the school to get your child in to the special school? OP is facing perm excl. for her child which is why she's posting.

You're right but not 100% right. Boundaries and what they're taught at home also plays a part in their behaviour

In my experience as an early years teacher this type of behaviour is by no means unusual as children start school. Children with communication needs, delayed social development or with issues at home will often hit or bite. Whilst this is clearly unacceptable in my view school should be trying strategies to understand and prevent this behaviour in order to keep the other children safe and help your child learn what is expected. Also pushing for further assessment if you or they have concerns about development. The Sendco should certainly be involved. We have children with FAR more severe behaviours and though we have had children on part time timetables and occasionally a temporary exclusion these are really rare. I have never known a permanent exclusion at this age at our school so it clearly varies a lot. It's important to remember this is a small child possibly scared and overwhelmed who is in all likelihood not deliberately choosing to hurt others. Think it is far too early to say that it's the wrong setting, I'm sorry you're having such a tough time.

@clarcats

I imagine the school are trying all sorts of strategies and have a LOT of experience with children. I would imagine school have realised that the setting isn't appropriate for the child who is behaving in this way and are trying to work out what they can do to 1. support the child 2. keep the other children safe and 3. make the parents aware that there's a problem.

Thats quite a lot of ‘imagining’ you’re doing there. He’s been in school 5 weeks. OP has not indicated any real SEN strategies being discussed, no SENCO involvement, not exploration of the issues - just deciding to get rid.

If we’re playing the imagination game, then I would ‘imagine’ that it is becoming apparent that he has SEN, but that school simply can’t face supporting this child for the YEARS it will take to assess, diagnose, observe, try everything, get EHCP, adjust EHCP, see if that’s working, and then if it’s still not working THEN having the EHCP reflect that mainstream isn’t the right place.

It’s 5weeks in - it’s far too early to say if he can cope in mainstream or not since they aren’t really doing much at all to help him be ABLE to cope. Instead they are looking to shortcut the process by excluding him now, having not done any of background work, and instead leave that for the next school to do.

Does he have an additional need? My first thoughts were ADHD because you mentioned he couldn't sit still to concentrate on lessons.

When you say "hit" what level of hitting are you talking about? Because hitting, chasing, and biting - while not in the least bit desirable - are all developmentally normal particularly if you have a child who is behind their peers in terms of social-emptional development. Infant-stage at school is essentially Lord of the Flies in miniature because they're all still learning the rules, both the school rules and the rules of life, almost all of them do stuff like hit or chase or even bite.

It sounds like school aren't doing much in the way of support or pre-empting and redirecting. I would ask for an urgent referral to Ed Psych and if they say no, ask for their justification in writing. I would also contact the school nursing team for your area, you can self-refer, they will be able to provide support for you and your DC, they can also liase with school and observe him there as well as at school. They can also make a referral to agencies such as CAMHS if needed. I would also contact your Local Authority and speak to the Education Welfare Officer who can offer advice on the creation of a behaviour management plan, risk assessments relating to his behaviour, and an individual support plan as part of their remit. You can also ask school to make a referral to the Education Welfare Officer.

Ask for a copy of their behaviour plan and exclusion policy, check that they are following all appropriate steps as from your posts so far it does not sound like they are. I would also ask for a copy of his school record and for a meeting with the SENCo to discuss support strategies.

I worked with an autistic child who was violent. He was incredibly anxious about starting school, and it was his anxiety that was the catalyst for negative behaviours. Over time, we built a positive relationship with trust, and he became a different child.
I hope the same can happen for your son He's still only young and needs support and understanding.

Jumping to permanent exclusion this early isn’t appropriate, but part time timetables should not be used to manage behaviour. The pupil should be in school full time or if the school don’t want DS in school full time they should follow due process and exclude - which would allow the OP to challenge the school’s decisions and also provide her evidence for an EHCP.