To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

As a parent to a child who was injured multiple times by such a child in reception absolutely yes they should be excluded. It took almost a year of bite marks and bruises over the other 29 children including them all having to leave the classroom on a few occasions whilst teachers attempted to restrain the child before they could exclude them. It should have been quicker.

The right to access education applies to all the other children in the class too, whose education is being disrupted by one badly behaved child.
As someone else said, in a class of maybe 25 or more children, a teacher or TA can't focus all their attention on one child, trying to anticipate violent outbursts. Teachers are not social workers. Nor is it the function of a GP to sort out poor behaviour in children.

That is absolutely horrendous those poor children, it should never have been allowed to get to that point, that child clearly needs to be in a special school. It must have been heartbreaking sending your child into danger every day!

Schools get punished for exclusions so no one is going to do it lightly. Why should a class full of kids be affected by 1?

There is a massive EP shortage at the moment-we don’t have one allocated for our school at all, so telling the school to get this sorted asap may be futile.

Find out the process in your LA for a paeds referral to discuss some assessments. In some areas, these referrals can be made by the school, but in many, you need to go to the GP yourself.

It's horrendous. Exclude the violent child and then investigate to find out why they are violent. Nobody benefits from having a violent child in school, including the child himself.

That is all hideously nuts.

Those consequences aren't developmentally appropriate.

His crimes aren't worthy of exclusion.

They need to be identifying the underlying causes, focusing on prevention and logical consequences.

I know! Not knowing every day of your child is going to come home with an injury.

Op, I’m giving you the biggest hug you can imagine right now.
Some of these posts are frankly appalling.
This is a little boy, 5 weeks in to starting school.
Not a chance have they done a damn thing to ‘help’.
They have gone with the sadly all too familiar route of ‘punish’.
Go on over to the SEN boards where you will get far more understanding.
Get in touch with your GP on Monday.
Have a look online for assessment resources for autism and adhd. You’re going to get very familiar with these in the next few months.
In some areas you can self refer to Camhs but it’s a slow process, community paeds via the GP might be better.
Get angry yourself, once the sadness subsides. You’re going to have a battle for whatever provision is right for your child. Whatever that happens to be.
They cannot permanently exclude without following their own procedures and so far all they’ve done is scare you. Very much sounds like trying to get rid without any effort to me. Once you get a referral underway put it all in writing to school. Once you start to get down the SEN route there are other legal protections relating to disability and adjustments that you can work with.

Ive been in your shoes. Still am, ds is 9. Every day is a battle but I’m not giving up on him. You need support and help, not criticism. Have another hug x

Whole heartedly agree.

My child was your child in reception. Fortunately most posters here aren't teachers in my child's school.

I’m so sorry that you are in this position, OP. I’m shocked that a school is discussing PX at this point in Reception.

My son is in the same year as yours although he is summer-born and not yet five. He started mainstream Reception with an EHCP already in place and has a 1:1 in addition to other support measures. I mention this not to gloat but because sometimes there is an attitude that it is too early to have support in place, and this is absolutely not the case. Your son’s nursery setting clearly lacked the knowledge to help him and have let him down. I hope his school won’t do the same. I’m happy to talk further over PM of you would like.

Ohhh-kay, this sounds unusual. It must be an extreme case is all I can think, for permanent exclusion to be mentioned in just a few weeks, at this age.

The relevant legislation is the SEND Code of Practice of 2015, here’s one council’s explanation of it (just happened to be first coming up in Google) - www.livewell.cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk/Information/Special_Educational_Needs_SEN_support_in_mainstrea

I should think your first port of call for advice is the SENDIASS. Every council must by law have a SENDIASS service (SEND information, advice and support) and you can find a local one through councilfordisabledchildren.org.uk/what-we-do-0/networks/information-advice-and-support-services-network/find-your-local-ias-service

The other port of call would be the gp to get an assessment rolling. But the school should be telling you this via the senco.

If they want to exclude him there is a process to follow, otherwise they are risking an illegal exclusion. You can apply for an ehcp yourself if school are reluctant and go to gp to rule out any physical issues . Also ask to speak to the inclusion officer as they need to ensure he is educated once he is of compulsory age.

because once you leave ms without a ehcp you won't get in another school!

The admissions code says otherwise. During the normal year of entry, if the school has a place they can only refuse an application if the pupil has been permanently excluded twice and it is within two years of the last exclusion. However, even if OP’s DS has been excluded twice it wouldn’t apply unless DS is a deferred summer born as he isn’t yet CSA and permanent exclusion prior to that don’t count towards the two exclusions required.

Ive been through similar OP and have messaged you privately x

He went to a day nursery since he was 2. I raised the behaviour there, and pushed for further assessment, but had no success. They said that they did not want to label him
So the behaviour is not new, he's been like this in every setting since he was 2?

I'm sorry to single you out @Prinnny as you are not the only poster to have these views, but genuinely, do you think there are half empty specialist schools in every town just waiting for these children to arrive? And that it take a quick phone call and off they go? There are not enough special schools or places, and the assessments/evidence and fighting with the LA necessary to gain a place takes months (at best) if not years. The current mantra in my LA at least, is 'every child in mainstream.'

It’s such a fine balance but it sounds like they are being on the very harsher side. My daughter is in y2 and a lot of the boys have struggled with behaviour. Covid has meant they’ve missed crucial periods and the year group is challenging. She has been hit, kicked etc and on the other side, I felt like our school was too soft and was angry and upset for my child. However, they really they need more TAs to manage the likely additional needs. Many of the children who have struggled are lovely individually but have continued to struggle with a formal classroom setting.

In your case, it feels very early in the year to be excluding a reception aged child. It is hard to say that the school can have given enough time for some of their strategies to work.

Have you tried to speak to a medical professional about his behaviour issues? Is it just in school or does he have the same issues elsewhere?

If your son was being hit, bitten etc by another child, would you want them expelled?

If he’s been in school for five weeks, the school can’t have yet put in strategies to support him and reviewed their effectiveness. Surely he must have been referred to the SENCo and a plan for managing his behaviour agreed upon. There should be much more done before talk of permanent exclusion, unless there was an incident that was so severe that the school had no choice. I don’t think that’s the situation here though.

Is there additional support in the classroom and a plan for what will happen to preempt an outburst? Do they know what the triggers are? The strategies already in place don’t seem to be part of a coherent plan at the moment.

It will be very difficult to access an EP at this stage, but that doesn’t mean the school can do nothing. It sounds as though they’re reactive rather than proactive. Of course it isn’t ok for him to be hitting and biting others. His classmates are entitled to be safe in school, but there must be more that can be done before permanent exclusion,

I would request an assessment for ADHD. My nephew had issues at school (throwing things, shouting, pushing other kids) and he was ultimately diagnosed with ADHD

Thank you so much for everyone. So much advice and support here.

I’ve spent the last few hours being very upset and, sorry, he’s actually FOUR. I can’t believe I got his age wrong. He’s a July baby and so he’s young for his year.

@Magnanimouse you’ve been incredibly helpful. Yes, it’s a quiet small rural school in a very well to do area, and I don’t think that they come across this behaviour much.

He does have firm boundaries at home and has been brought up to love and respect others.

I also have a feeling that this particular teacher might get into trouble for mentioning permanent exclusion to me this afternoon. It was done in a casual way after school, not in a proper meeting. She has just started at this school (moved from private sector) and I think her HT might be cross that she’s done this.

I’ve got some really great advice from this thread and I’m so so grateful.

Whst do you propose she does with him after she’s pulled him out just never send him to school again for the next 13 years

Of course he should. No one wants their child to be hit, bitten or have their learning disrupted.
No child or teacher should feel threatened in school.
Hopefully this will be the beginning of getting him the help he needs and finding a more suitable setting.