Friend called me a Karen

[cestelee]

I was in a coffee shop with my friend and ordered a hot chocolate and some lunch. When the hot chocolate came it was very bitter and had no sugar in it at all.

It took a while (10m) to get the attention of a waitress as they were busy and I very politely told them that I think the barista made a mistake when making it and could they please remake it to be sweet too.

The waitress was very polite, and I thanked them and apologized for the inconvenience. She took the hot chocolate away. Five minutes later she came back and asked me if it were ok to just put sugar in it or if I wanted it remaking.

I knew it would be colder now and the sugar wouldn't dissolve, which is a bit icky, so I thanked her and asked if she could remake it. Waitress was very polite and the new hot chocolate when it came was perfect.

Friend called me a Karen for first sending it back, which she said is rude, and second asking them to remake it instead of putting sugar in it. She never got nasty and said it in jest but was trying to make a point.

My mum is called Karen and I really don't like that phrase. She's invited me for coffee this weekend and I don't want to go now. WIBU?

YANBU - I hate this whole thing of calling women Karens because they have the temerity to ask for things they are entitled to. Providing you are polite, which you were, there is no need for it. I think you need to talk to her - i'd have been very unhappy about that

If you don't want to go for a coffee with her dont go. Simple.

I utterly hate the term Karen. It’s just another way to shut women up. Funny how there’s no male equivalent. I don’t see anything wrong with politely asking to have something re-made when it wasn’t right.

Your friend is an idiot. Don't spend time with idiots.

Is this your first ever visit to Mumsnet?

If not, you'll know exactly how the vast majority of Mumsnetters feel about the misogynistic use of the name Karen as an insult.

You were in the right in the cafe. She is wrong to believe its rude to ask for substandard service to be put right.
She shouldn't have called you a Karen.
But, you are overreacting in not wanting to see her again. People throw the Karen term around quite casually in RL, mostly because they haven't thought about how and why it's offensive, and think its just a mild jokey way to tease someone for complaining.
In your shoes I'd have (at the time) explained why it was offensive to call you that.

Funny how she is fine being rude to you, but not you being 'rude' (which is totally doesn't sound like you were)

Does she generally like you to be a pushover?

I hate the term 'Karen'. It's misogynist and (often) ageist. As a middle aged woman I've often not bothered complaining about something because I know I'll just get labelled as such.
I belong to a few FB Etsy groups and there is a ghastly thing called a 'Karen Check' where you can look up whether a customer has form for complaining. A lot of the members of these groups are young women and they think nothing of recommending this service. I despair, I really do.

People throw the Karen term around quite casually in RL, mostly because they haven't thought about how and why it's offensive, and think its just a mild jokey way to tease someone for complaining.

This

I don't think she meant it as anything other than a joke but also to get across a point. She said she was embarrassed with me sending the hot chocolate back.

It's not that I never want to be her friend again, its that I feel a bit disempowered and I know I have to address this to move forward but I don't like confrontation.

They might think it is mild and jokey.

But it ain't a joke unless everyone's laughing.

I detest the use of calling women 'Karen'.

My daughter has called me it once. And my sister used the term about another woman she had encountered.

Neither of them use it in my company because they were told in no uncertain terms why it is so offensive and misogynistic.

The friend was wrong but I don’t think that’s the definition of a joke.

Oh I hate this term and honestly when I hear people saying it my assumption is that they're a probably bit thick.

1. It is not wrong to politely and calmly complain if you receive service/goods/whatever that aren't to standard. No one cares if men do it!

2. It's just another way of telling (usually aged over 35) women to sit down, be quiet - 'get back in your box' like a good girl. No thanks.

3. It's horrible for the many wonderful people called Karen!

I saw this meme the other day. It's very rude, but it made me laugh.

OP I wouldn't lose a friendship over this but I would have, at the time, asked my friend what her problem was and if she knew why calling someone that was offensive? Sounds like you were polite to the staff, and your friend was rude to you. Why is that ok?

Yep, also hate the use of Karen. I would have just said at the time, "I know you're joking but I find it offensive because...." and then hopefully both moved on.

Your friend was being OTT but if all it needed was sugar, why didn’t you go up and ask for a sachet? I prefer hot chocs without added sugar because they’re often overly sweet and there’s no coming back from that.

It wouldn’t occur to me that my hot chocolate needed to be remade until it met my criteria for sweetness, that is a bit embarrassing. But the term Karen is awful.

I wouldn't go for coffee with her again.

The term Karen is a way people can try to keep women in line while thinking they look like the champion of the opppressed.

However you unreasonable for wanting sugar in hot chocolate. Milk is already sweet, no need to sweeten it (so I don’t think the barista got it wrong).

I don’t think she’s even understood the (ridiculous) use of Karen, that wasn’t a “karen situation” (not that I agree that “Karen” should be the term for any sort of ill behaviour fyi)

had you demanded a new one, the whole bill paid for and screamed and shouted in front of everyone that would have been “Karen” worthy and embarrassing, not politely requesting your order be corrected.

byt also for the record, the use of the word karen says more about your friend than you and I would be embarrassed to be with someone who used the term.

Mumsnet is the only place I hear the term ‘Karen’ these days. The rest of the world moved on from it mid 2020.

YANBU but I’d be more annoyed at the fact she was embarrassed/annoyed at me for asking for sugar, than calling me Karen.

Karen is just a nice word for an uptight moaner and as you say, it was said as a joke.
So I would have let that slide.

However, her implying that you should have just sat there and smiled and not spoken up about the drink you ordered would have really annoyed me.

If you were rude to the staff then obviously you were in the wrong but it doesn’t sound like you were.

I still see it everywhere, including on TikTok with those "conversation with a customer" videos.

It's really annoying how Karen is being used for every time a woman asks for something/queries or stands up for themselves.

Karen was a term for a woman who uses her position of privilege to make harmful statements and accusations against others, usually black and brown people.

It belittles the root cause of it and insults women as a general.