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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that JK Rowling is a lioness of epic proportions?

548 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 05/10/2022 23:52

I don't think I'm being unreasonable. She's put everything out there to safeguard children in the face of vile misogyny and cowardice from many of her fellow writers.

She also always has beautiful hair.

NYANBU

YYABUTQ+

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
lifeturnsonadime · 06/10/2022 18:36

HarlanPepper · 06/10/2022 18:32

@Winecrispschocolatecats I've only had a look at one of the studies you cite, the 2000 one, and what immediately jumps out at me is that a) there were only 42 participants, of which only one was a trans man, and b) they don't show that the difference in somatostatin-expressing neurons is definitely not a result of prolonged hormone treatment.

Quelle surprise!

ReneBumsWombats · 06/10/2022 18:38

dianthus101 · 06/10/2022 18:32

It has hardly taken me any time to post the few sentences I have posted. I don't want to spend anymore time though.

You've been engaging with the thread for hours. You can't find any evidence in this time that JKR hates trans people?

In the blue corner dianthus101. In the red corner, Turnip...

Knittingmonster · 06/10/2022 18:40

The turnip would win

ReneBumsWombats · 06/10/2022 18:40

HarlanPepper · 06/10/2022 18:32

@Winecrispschocolatecats I've only had a look at one of the studies you cite, the 2000 one, and what immediately jumps out at me is that a) there were only 42 participants, of which only one was a trans man, and b) they don't show that the difference in somatostatin-expressing neurons is definitely not a result of prolonged hormone treatment.

Oops.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 06/10/2022 18:41

@Winecrispschocolatecats

But this is amazing news! We no longer need self id! We can just run a simple test and confirm, 100% without question, who has a woman's brain and who has a man's brain.

Please, shout from the rooftops that there is NO NEED WHATSOEVER now to simply accept males in female spaces on their own say-so, we just need to get the testing set up.

Oh but hang on, even if is true (it's not, because this would be a HUGE discovery splashed across all media, but even if it was), what exactly does the brain have to do with female-only spaces and protections?

I mean, we never set them up based on what brain someone has, just what body. How could we, if we didn't even know about this elusive brain sex until very recently?

That's kind of the point of single sex spaces, right? They exist because of how male people treat people with bodies like ours, and what that in turn does to our own self-image and socialization. It's not like they have been able to peer into our heads and check what brain type we have before treating us like that. It's always just been about the body they see.

TRAs seem to believe that women's spaces are just sort of there, floating in existence for no reason, and logically therefore must be available to anyone who claims the name "woman", even if the meaning of the word has to be utterly changed for them to do so. It's so weird to not even wonder why the spaces exist in the first place, and realise they only exist at all because of the people who needed them, and those are the people who should have the right to them, whatever the word "woman" ends up meaning in future, and whatever those people come to be called instead.

WandaWomblesaurus · 06/10/2022 18:47

entropynow · 06/10/2022 15:43

Ofgs this is a bloody personality cult.
YABeyondU and into ridiculous worship just because she supports your own prejudices

We worship her at midnight, screaming and naked in the dark, we drag our ancient gnarled bodies up to the top of Arthur's Seat and we cackle with toothless grins, with a life size effigy of the genderbread man which we fall upon and devour, whilst Rowling herself feasts on its exquisite floppily doppilies and then we all marry her and cover ourselves in Biscoff sandwich spread.

OP posts:
lifeturnsonadime · 06/10/2022 18:56

Knittingmonster · 06/10/2022 18:40

The turnip would win

Come on the bowl us over with your reasoning.

What has JKR said that is transphobic?

Why is it hateful and transphobic to want :

Women and girls' safety and dignity to be preserved by maintaining single sex spaces free from any males however they identify?

Rapists and paedophiles to be kept out of the female prison estate?

Women and girls to have the right to compete fairly in sport free from males of any identity?

Children's charities to follow evidence based recommendations when dealing with children with gender issues?

Lesbians not to be called bigots for rejecting penises in their dating pools?

Waiting.,......

lifeturnsonadime · 06/10/2022 18:56

WandaWomblesaurus · 06/10/2022 18:47

We worship her at midnight, screaming and naked in the dark, we drag our ancient gnarled bodies up to the top of Arthur's Seat and we cackle with toothless grins, with a life size effigy of the genderbread man which we fall upon and devour, whilst Rowling herself feasts on its exquisite floppily doppilies and then we all marry her and cover ourselves in Biscoff sandwich spread.

lol !

EdgeOfACoin · 06/10/2022 18:59

WandaWomblesaurus · 06/10/2022 18:47

We worship her at midnight, screaming and naked in the dark, we drag our ancient gnarled bodies up to the top of Arthur's Seat and we cackle with toothless grins, with a life size effigy of the genderbread man which we fall upon and devour, whilst Rowling herself feasts on its exquisite floppily doppilies and then we all marry her and cover ourselves in Biscoff sandwich spread.

😂

SweetSenorita · 06/10/2022 19:03

LikeTearsInRain · 06/10/2022 00:02

I don’t like her

Looks like you get all the jelly and ice cream .... cos you're the only one at the party.

ReneBumsWombats · 06/10/2022 19:07

WandaWomblesaurus · 06/10/2022 18:47

We worship her at midnight, screaming and naked in the dark, we drag our ancient gnarled bodies up to the top of Arthur's Seat and we cackle with toothless grins, with a life size effigy of the genderbread man which we fall upon and devour, whilst Rowling herself feasts on its exquisite floppily doppilies and then we all marry her and cover ourselves in Biscoff sandwich spread.

And we'll do it to you as well, because this is fucking amazing.

VinoDino · 06/10/2022 19:09

We worship her at midnight, screaming and naked in the dark, we drag our ancient gnarled bodies up to the top of Arthur's Seat and we cackle with toothless grins, with a life size effigy of the genderbread man which we fall upon and devour, whilst Rowling herself feasts on its exquisite floppily doppilies and then we all marry her and cover ourselves in Biscoff sandwich spread.

Fabulous.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 06/10/2022 19:12

We worship her at midnight, screaming and naked in the dark, we drag our ancient gnarled bodies up to the top of Arthur's Seat and we cackle with toothless grins, with a life size effigy of the genderbread man which we fall upon and devour, whilst Rowling herself feasts on its exquisite floppily doppilies and then we all marry her and cover ourselves in Biscoff sandwich spread.

This is brilliant 😂

LoopyGremlin · 06/10/2022 20:06

She is fab. ❤️

babyjellyfish · 06/10/2022 20:38

Winecrispschocolatecats · 06/10/2022 18:17

Hi @EdgeOfACoin, I'm glad you asked. In simple terms,scientific studies have shown that there are certain neurons in the brain that dictate sex, sexual identity, gender identity etc. These are called somatostatin-expressing neurons. Men have broadly twice as many as women - however trans women have a similar number as women. Trans men have almost double the number ie the same as men. The conclusion is that somatostatin neuronal differences in the brain point to a neurobiological basis for gender dysmorphia. Or, in layman's terms, the brain controls our entire bodies, from whether we're left or right handed, how we learn, who we're attracted to, and how we identify. Most of the time the brain matches the body (yay for us!) but in a small percentage of people the brain is at odds with the body and that difference can be seen in their neurons. Just as conversion therapy doesn't make gay people straight (and destroys their mental health) it doesn't make trans people "un-trans." It's literally built in at cellular level.

For those who leap on this response to say "it's all in their heads then" please consider that so is being gay, autistic, prodigiously gifted for example. It's the luck of the draw.

*male-frmale transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus - DF Swaab et al 2000
**Brain sex in transgender women is shifted towards gender identity - F Kurth et al 2022

What a load of absolute cock.

An organ which women do not have, by the way.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 06/10/2022 20:41

@Winecrispschocolatecats

So what I understand from your post then is that every single person that identifies as trans, as we can’t tell their status by simple observation of their obvious sex identifiers (bone structure, gait, Adams apple or not etc.) nor by genitals, so now we can just do this simple test to understand who’s really trans and who’s not? Before starting any sort of hormone therapy or surgery?

Excellent!

DemBonesDemBones · 06/10/2022 20:44

Beautiful, brave lady. I love her.

babyjellyfish · 06/10/2022 20:44

WandaWomblesaurus · 06/10/2022 13:46

Back to JKR, I cannot imagine Pullman or Gaiman or King being as brave, but then they wouldn't get the rape threats would they.
Can't think why that is?

Pullman is really disappointing.

I don't think it is possible to write the Sally Lockhart series and the Northern Lights series and actually believe in this rubbish.

Sally Lockhart was just about the TERFiest character imaginable, and Northern Lights is a devastating critique of organised religion, featuring adults who performed harmful experiments on pubescent children in furtherance of their batshit ideology.

I'm absolutely certain that Pullman has chosen to take this position out of spite and jealousy that JKR is so much more successful than him.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/10/2022 20:46

Northern Lights is a devastating critique of organised religion, featuring adults who performed harmful experiments on pubescent children in furtherance of their batshit ideology.

Indeed. How, er, prescient.

whynotwhatknot · 06/10/2022 20:53

Yes i love her and im not even a harry potter fan-someone has to speak out

babyjellyfish · 06/10/2022 20:55

For anyone unfamiliar with the Sally Lockhart series, the heroine is a young woman living in Victorian London who was raised by a single father and learned to speak Hindi, shoot a pistol and understand company accounts, but didn't learn to paint, sing, play the piano or any other pursuits suitable for young ladies. She studies at Cambridge but is not awarded a degree because she is female. She starts her own financial consulting business where she has to work ridiculously hard to win clients' trust because she is a woman. She has a child out of wedlock by a man who dies before they can marry, and has to deal with the stigma of being an unmarried mother in Victorian times. One day she is served with a divorce petition by a man she has never heard of, who is seeking to take control of her property and custody of her child. Her own lawyer doesn't believe her when she says she has never met this man and doesn't understand why he is claiming to be her husband, and advises her to defend the claims in the divorce petition that she was an unfit wife and mother, forcing her to go into hiding while she tries to figure out what is going on. She's incredibly gender non-conforming, and all the injustices that she suffers are because she is female.

If she were a real person, and her creator tried to tell her that trans women are women and that they are the most oppressed of all women, she'd laugh in his fucking face and say, "Don't be ridiculous, Philip. Of course they're not women."

Winecrispschocolatecats · 06/10/2022 20:59

Yes, absolutely. If you're prepared to pay ££££ of taxpayer money for each test. Or just accept that the people in question, with the brain in question, know their brain better than a scientist does. Just like we know we're not trans (or gay, or left-handed, or a musical prodigy) without a brain scan.

RUFISRUF · 06/10/2022 21:01

Winecrispschocolatecats · 06/10/2022 20:59

Yes, absolutely. If you're prepared to pay ££££ of taxpayer money for each test. Or just accept that the people in question, with the brain in question, know their brain better than a scientist does. Just like we know we're not trans (or gay, or left-handed, or a musical prodigy) without a brain scan.

So you’re saying a lay person knows the human brain better than a neurobiologist abs can count their own neurons? How do we count our own neurons?

babyjellyfish · 06/10/2022 21:01

Winecrispschocolatecats · 06/10/2022 20:59

Yes, absolutely. If you're prepared to pay ££££ of taxpayer money for each test. Or just accept that the people in question, with the brain in question, know their brain better than a scientist does. Just like we know we're not trans (or gay, or left-handed, or a musical prodigy) without a brain scan.

So what if they know their own brain?

Their brain is the ONLY brain they know.

They have no idea what anyone else's brain is like, so what makes them think their brain is like that of the opposite sex?

lifeturnsonadime · 06/10/2022 21:04

Winecrispschocolatecats · 06/10/2022 20:59

Yes, absolutely. If you're prepared to pay ££££ of taxpayer money for each test. Or just accept that the people in question, with the brain in question, know their brain better than a scientist does. Just like we know we're not trans (or gay, or left-handed, or a musical prodigy) without a brain scan.

So Karen White and Sally Ann are to be believed.

They claim to have the 'brain in question'.

You don't give a fig about the poor women who will be their next victims in prison with them.

Vile.