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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to expect lodger to ask before regularly having new boyfriend stay overnight

346 replies

PonderingAIBU · 01/10/2022 01:24

I've been renting 2 rooms in my flat to 2 lodgers for the past few months. We get on well and both are very lovely, friendly, and love my cats which is a huge bonus (all feels amazing after a bad experience with a previous lodger a while ago).

Both are about 10 years younger than me and I'm in my 40s, so feel like dating days are a bit behind me.

Both have previously asked if family can stay and I've said yes, I'm totally happy with that from time to time. I even offered my bedroom to lodger 1's mum when I was away for a longer visit.

Lodger 1 now has a new boyfriend and the first time he stayed, she announced he was staying over without asking or discussing how me or Lodger 2 feel about it. It's all very new but since then, he's stayed over for abut 2 nights a week for the last couple of weeks. (Not a huge amount).

But I'm not sure if I'm unreasonable to feel a teeny bit bothered by the fact that he's started staying over without her giving me a heads up or asking if that's ok first? I feel a bit unsettled with someone I don't know wandering around my flat when I'm working from home or him sitting in the kitchen (by himself). I'm not sure if I would have been bothered by any of this if I was 10 years younger, so I'm not sure if I've just become an old fart who feels unsettled by strangers in her home or if I'm being unreasonable?

So as not to drip feed, she's really lovely generally but I've been a bit bothered by a coupe of things, like when her mum stayed in my room, she cleared space in my cupboard without telling me and threw my clothes on the floor and the top of my cupboard (with no explanation or apology when I came home), she's also taken personal things out of my storage space and used them (I would have said yes if she asked but she didn't), and doesn't clean or put away washing up. Plus a few guests previously - like on my birthday when I felt pushed out of my own home (although to be fair I hadn't told her it was my birthday - but a heads up would have been nice). Or when she asked to stay a few days for free before she moved in, when I didn't know her yet.

I'm generally very laid back and hate bringing things up in case it upsets anyone, but boyfriend has turned up again and I'm in bed wide awake and generally feeling a bit unsettled by it, wondering how long he'll be staying and if I'll be able to use the kitchen over the weekend. It's not necessarily a landlord question, rather than it would be nice for both me and the other lodger to know who is in our home and feel safe and consulted etc (the 2 lodgers do get on very well but I get the feeling lodger 2 wasn't loving finding the new random boyfriend hanging out in the kitchen by himself when she got back from work).

I realise she's paying rent and is entitled to start a new relationship. And I don't want to be unreasonable about it. But I'm not sure why I've got a knot in my stomach when I heard the boyfriend walk in again. :(

AIBU to even be bothered by the not asking about the boyfriend staying over. And should I just let it slide because we get along well and otherwise, she is lovely and friendly to have around? Sorry for the long post.

OP posts:
JustLyra · 05/10/2022 14:43

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 14:38

It’s not about people thinking lodgers should have less rights or have no right to guests etc - legally lodgers have less rights and have no right legal to have overnight guests etc.

I don't think tenants have legal right to overnight guests either though.

They do.

Theoretically a LL could try putting a clause in the tenancy banning it, but so long as they are no my sub letting or causing anti social behaviour then it would be no more enforceable than a clause stating the tenant has to make the LL dinner every Wednesday.

genuinelyaskingforafriend · 05/10/2022 14:43

I have rented a room in a property that the owner lives in. I've also rented a room in a house share.

They appear to be very different scenarios.

She should have more respect for you. It's your house!

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 14:45

tenants have far more rights. Including the right to privacy - their LL can’t just wander in.

LL do just wonder in to tenants properties all the time. They are supposed to give notice but after that they can enter.

The point is that lodgers and roommates are very different entities. When you’re a lodger your choices are to follow your LL’s rules or leave. not just take it upon yourself to rearrange their furniture and move your boyfriend in.

Tennants have to follow the landlords rules too though if they are in the contract and also wouldn't just be able to move a boyfriend in.

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 14:49

Theoretically a LL could try putting a clause in the tenancy banning it, but so long as they are no my sub letting or causing anti social behaviour then it would be no more enforceable than a clause stating the tenant has to make the LL dinner every Wednesday.

How is it it any more enforceable for a lodger than a tenant? In either case the landlord can evict the tenant.

JustLyra · 05/10/2022 14:59

LL do just wonder in to tenants properties all the time. They are supposed to give notice but after that they can enter.

That they do doesn’t mean that they can. And even with notice they can only legally enter in certain circumstances.

If the tenant still declines they have to go to court for permission and it would only be granted for certain things.

LL’s (and I’m not anti landlord - I am one) can’t actually legally just enter their tenants homes as willy-nilly as many do.

Rosehugger · 05/10/2022 15:03

You home, your rules. If they don't like it they can bugger off.

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 17:26

That they do doesn’t mean that they can. And even with notice they can only legally enter in certain circumstances.

That is often repeated on mumsnet but no one has ever linked to anything that demonstrates it is true. They will usually have it in the contract that they can do inspections for example. Do you have a link showing that they can't enter their own property if it is in the contract that they can and if they give notice?

JustLyra · 05/10/2022 17:45

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 17:26

That they do doesn’t mean that they can. And even with notice they can only legally enter in certain circumstances.

That is often repeated on mumsnet but no one has ever linked to anything that demonstrates it is true. They will usually have it in the contract that they can do inspections for example. Do you have a link showing that they can't enter their own property if it is in the contract that they can and if they give notice?

Yes, the key point everyone misses on the links is that the landlord can access if they give 24 hours notice and the tenant’s consent. Without the consent they must obtain a court order.

lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/landlords-right-to-access/
The landlord, or someone acting as their agent, can gain access to the property at a “reasonable time of the day” but only after giving the tenant a minimum of 24 hours’ notice in writing and receiving the tenant’s consent.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/repairs_and_inspections_access_to_your_rented_home

If you refuse access to your home

Refusing access for repairs, inspections and safety checks could:

put your health or safety at risk

break the rules of your tenancy agreement
This does not mean that either your landlord or contractors should just let themselves in. Legally, your landlord would have to apply for a court order to get access.

Having something in the tenancy agreement just means that when the landlord is stating that they can/will go to court to ask for permission for it to happen - be it access for inspection or to end the tenancy - if necessary. It doesn’t mean they can legally just do it then and there.

JustLyra · 05/10/2022 17:46

I could stick in my tenants contracts that they have to make me dinner every Wednesday - doesn’t mean I’ll be able to enforce it through court order.

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 17:59

JustLyra · 05/10/2022 17:45

Yes, the key point everyone misses on the links is that the landlord can access if they give 24 hours notice and the tenant’s consent. Without the consent they must obtain a court order.

lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/landlords-right-to-access/
The landlord, or someone acting as their agent, can gain access to the property at a “reasonable time of the day” but only after giving the tenant a minimum of 24 hours’ notice in writing and receiving the tenant’s consent.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/repairs_and_inspections_access_to_your_rented_home

If you refuse access to your home

Refusing access for repairs, inspections and safety checks could:

put your health or safety at risk

break the rules of your tenancy agreement
This does not mean that either your landlord or contractors should just let themselves in. Legally, your landlord would have to apply for a court order to get access.

Having something in the tenancy agreement just means that when the landlord is stating that they can/will go to court to ask for permission for it to happen - be it access for inspection or to end the tenancy - if necessary. It doesn’t mean they can legally just do it then and there.

Show quote history

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/what_to_look_for_in_your_tenancy_agreement/landlord_access

Terms that allow the landlord to come in to look at the condition of the property are allowed, as long as: visits are not too frequent and the landlord tells you when they are coming.

JustLyra · 05/10/2022 18:30

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 17:59

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/what_to_look_for_in_your_tenancy_agreement/landlord_access

Terms that allow the landlord to come in to look at the condition of the property are allowed, as long as: visits are not too frequent and the landlord tells you when they are coming.

Show quote history

Second and third paragraph from your own link…

The landlord needs to give you written notice before they enter if you are a tenant, no matter what reason they have to come in.

If you do not give permission, the landlord must not break into the property. But they may get a court order to enter or try to evict you.

Blondeshavemorefun · 05/10/2022 20:02

Why is he wandering Round your home esp when you are working

2 nights a week is plenty. But maybe do set nights so you know when

asdume he’s having showers etc so using water and electricity which are all costs so if he is staying then need to pay extra

shes a lodger with a room

not the run if your home

cheeky moving your clothes and furniture

no giving up your bedroom even if you aren’t there

tgsts your personal space

paintitallover · 05/10/2022 21:20

A lodger is different from a tenant, according to Shelter.

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 23:10

If you do not give permission, the landlord must not break into the property. But they may get a court order to enter or try to evict you.

If they can get a court order to enter or evict you, then they can enter! If I rented a room from a landlord as a lodger I am pretty sure that they also aren't allowed to enter the room without permission or eviction either. The only difference is that it is easier to evict a lodger.

Stopsnowing · 06/10/2022 05:44

There is a difference between a tenancy agreement and a license to occupy which is more used for lodgers

www.bradleyhaynessolicitors.co.uk/the-difference-between-a-lease-and-a-licence/

GardenOfficer · 06/10/2022 10:12

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 23:10

If you do not give permission, the landlord must not break into the property. But they may get a court order to enter or try to evict you.

If they can get a court order to enter or evict you, then they can enter! If I rented a room from a landlord as a lodger I am pretty sure that they also aren't allowed to enter the room without permission or eviction either. The only difference is that it is easier to evict a lodger.

Lodgers do not have the right to prevent the landlord from entering their room, and no court order is needed. So for example the landlord might want to take a look from time to time to check it's not too messy. Or there might be a cleaner who's allowed in once a week. Or maybe they might want to check for ashtrays if they can smell smoke and it's prohibited to smoke in the property.

But practically speaking the landlord usually won't exercise this right very often, if all, because the lodger wouldn't like it. But absolutely yes the landlord is allowed access and that is why a lodger (unlike a tenant) is not allowed to have a lock on their door.

marblemad · 07/10/2022 02:39

JustLyra · 05/10/2022 13:05

The point is that you can’t just swap the word lodger with roommate. Nor can you just swap it with tenant. All three are very different things legally.

If the lodger wants to be treated as a roommate she needs to find a house share. That’s not what she has atm.

Show quote history

You are hugely incorrect. It is deemed as a house share and equal rights still count.

JustLyra · 07/10/2022 02:43

marblemad · 07/10/2022 02:39

You are hugely incorrect. It is deemed as a house share and equal rights still count.

Show quote history

No, I’m not.

A house share and a lodger are not remotely the same thing.

JustLyra · 07/10/2022 02:46

dianthus101 · 05/10/2022 23:10

If you do not give permission, the landlord must not break into the property. But they may get a court order to enter or try to evict you.

If they can get a court order to enter or evict you, then they can enter! If I rented a room from a landlord as a lodger I am pretty sure that they also aren't allowed to enter the room without permission or eviction either. The only difference is that it is easier to evict a lodger.

You’re wrong. The landlord of a lodger doesn’t need permission to enter their room.

And eviction only needs to be “reasonable” notice. If they pay weekly, for example, they can be given a weeks notice.

At the end of that week the LL can put a lock on the door or change the locks to prevent entry. Even if the lodger leaves stuff there, though you do have to keep their stuff safe and return it to them.

HotDogKetchup · 07/10/2022 08:55

JustLyra · 07/10/2022 02:46

You’re wrong. The landlord of a lodger doesn’t need permission to enter their room.

And eviction only needs to be “reasonable” notice. If they pay weekly, for example, they can be given a weeks notice.

At the end of that week the LL can put a lock on the door or change the locks to prevent entry. Even if the lodger leaves stuff there, though you do have to keep their stuff safe and return it to them.

Show quote history

This all hinges on whether it’s a true lodgers agreement or a tenancy of one room. I.e whether or not there’s exclusive possession of the room. I used to push the hoover around my lodgers room to keep it a legitimate lodgers agreement - I made clear before they moved in that I would do that, so if they were objectionable they had a chance to leave it.

HotDogKetchup · 07/10/2022 09:05

marblemad · 07/10/2022 02:39

You are hugely incorrect. It is deemed as a house share and equal rights still count.

Show quote history

JustLyra is right - a quick Google will confirm.

Lodgers - occupy under a licence
Tenants - under a tenancy
houseshare - under a tenancy with joint and several liability- in the case of a tenancy with a lead tenant some might be just occupying under a licence.

Tenancy = means the 1954 act applies which affords the sort of protections you have referenced, licence/lodger it doesn’t.

Original poster
PonderingAIBU · 02/12/2022 23:02

Hey everyone, thanks again for your brilliant advice a couple of months ago. In case anyone is interested in an update, both lodgers thankfully moved out this week. There's a bit of a long story but in short the 'nice lodger' turned out to be a nightmare too and became very aggressive over a kitten (yes it's as weird as it sounds), so I had to ask both to leave. It's been incredibly stressful but thankfully over.

OP posts:
CuriousMama · 02/12/2022 23:07

PonderingAIBU · 02/12/2022 23:02

Hey everyone, thanks again for your brilliant advice a couple of months ago. In case anyone is interested in an update, both lodgers thankfully moved out this week. There's a bit of a long story but in short the 'nice lodger' turned out to be a nightmare too and became very aggressive over a kitten (yes it's as weird as it sounds), so I had to ask both to leave. It's been incredibly stressful but thankfully over.

Oh dear sorry to hear about that. So you have no lodgers? I hope you're ok financially?

Original poster
PonderingAIBU · 02/12/2022 23:12

Thanks @CuriousMama, I'm ok financially.😊It's not worth having hostility in your home. And no one deserves to dread coming home. 😞So even if I needed the money it was the right decision unfortunately.

OP posts:
Original poster
PonderingAIBU · 02/12/2022 23:14

One of them marched me around her room and told me I wouldn't get the keys until I paid her back her deposit. And since they've left, I've discovered things are missing. Very frustrating.

OP posts:
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