Family want to take my children on holiday but we don't feel comfortable

I’m not sure what your point is?

Should we only be concerned about younger girls, and NOT boys aged 11+ years?

@lovingmother82 I’m very confused, I’m not from the UK so I think there might be some cultural norms I’m missing here- is it normal for relatives to want to see children on their own rather than with parents?

My point is that people are repeatedly saying that the brother is being ridiculous in expecting the 3 children (youngest one 5) to fly to Australia on their own to spend 3 weeks with him. An 11 year old flying over is very different from him and 2 far younger sisters flying over. There's a huge difference between an 11 year old and a 5 year old, and between looking after 1 child and looking after 3. The brother's suggestion is far more reasonable than people are pretending it is.

It's very normal, yes. It's very common for grandparents in particular to have grandchildren to stay or to take them away on holiday.

It's very odd how so many on here don't understand basic family relationships

Disagreeing is not the same as not understanding.

There's no way in hell I would be doing the Australia/brother scenario. Honestly I'd just laugh and say "yeah, good one."

The grandparents scenario is different. If they know the children very well, you trust them 100% with the children, and children are keen to go, then I think I would do it. I would still feel uneasy though until the second they got back, because that's who I am 😆

@Tobletone would there not be an expectation to host the parents as well? I mean I know a lot of parents would jump at the chance to have a bit of time to themselves and so might happily avail of the children only option, but is it normal to just not make the invitation to the parents too, and just give the option of only taking the kids? Where I’m from it would be seen as a bit rude to only want to spend time with the kids, a bit like inviting adults but telling them to leave the kids at home wouldn’t go down well either.

Tell the brother to travel over.
Anyone who tries to pressurise me to do with my children doesn’t get far at all.

The scenario as you outline it OP would have me saying a very firm no. Grandparents and all

This idiocy again that I’ve never seen outside MN - relatives wanting “alone time” with kids that aren’t theirs. “We've suggested we all take a family trip but he has no interest and wants to have 121 quality time with the kids without us there”
Without you there. Why? Just Say No!

@lovingmother82 don't forget that we have no idea who anyone really is on here, what their agendas are or why they might be getting vicarious pleasure from egging a mother on to send a shy 11 year old boy to Australia alone to stay with a man he doesn't know.

As you suggest, this is often seen as helping the parents, as children have 13 weeks' school holiday, and parents generally have only 4 or 5 weeks' annual leave from work. This means having to spend a lot of money on childcare, which may well not be as nice for the children as going to the grandparents anyway. In the UK it's usual for both parents to work.
That aside, having your grandchildren to stay is very different from inviting the whole family. It's difficult to fit 4 or 5 guests into a small house, even if they are related to you. And having adults to stay is very different from having children to stay. One of the many attitudes on MN that I find strange is the apparent incomprehension that lots of people really like children and spending time with them. Especially if they're your grandchildren. The relationship between grandparents and grandchildren doesn't always have to go via the parents.

I think the issue is some parents, as evidenced on here, don't want to ever go outside of their comfort zone.

There are so many things throughout a child's life that will make parents uncomfortable, but for them to develop and grow you just need to get over it. Their first school trip, first sleepover, first night at grans, first Independant flight - all normal things for parents to worry about, but a parent being worried shouldn't be an automatic trigger for a child not being able to do something. Which many on here seem to struggle with, they think if parents aren't happy about something that's the final decision, which is just not how anyone I know irl operates

That poster doesn't allow their kids overnights at all, not just with family members who are acting inappropriately

"We don’t let our DC stay overnight with anyone that lives outside our household."

It's severely limiting to children to not allow independence, and to make them so sheltered.

@NaturalBae why did you feel the need to post about not letting young children into toilets alone

Do you think anyone lets a small child in the toilets alone?

Unless your view of 'young' is 7+

@lovingmother82

He probably wants alone time with your kids because you aren't there to control everything. I think it's normal that he wants to spend time with them and very generous.

I only want to see my nieces and nephews alone because I cannot stand the way my DB and SIL make me feel around them. I'm not allowed to discipline them even if they snatch something from me, I cannot gently tell them not to snatch. I will come up with a fun game and as we're in the middle SIL will insist it's nap time (time changes daily) and the game will be ruined. It's exhausting. Some control freaks use their kids as a way to exert control. Without wanting to be rude, do you think you could be like this?

I think your attitude to your parents taking the kids for a week seems very odd.

I think some people are against the idea of Australia because he is a man, and doesn't know your kids too well. If it were an aunt who knew your kids better there would be far more YABUs. But I think you are partly to blame for your brother not knowing your kids. Have you ever visited him with your family or just wait for him to visit you? Have you facetimed him with the kids? Also Australia is as far as it gets, if it were anywhere else in the world there would be more YABUs.

Yes, I said that I would feel uneasy but I would probably still do it. In the grandparent scenario.

In the uncle scenario, I would feel a lot more uneasy; uneasy enough that I would refuse in those circumstances. That's not to say it would be a no forever: I might change my mind when the children were older, or if the uncle managed to build a closer relationship with the kids. But those decisions are mine to make. My decision is the final decision as the parent. I don't have an Australian brother who has never seen my kids but if I did, there's no way he'd be having a say in how I parent!

@takealettermsjones but the brother isn't trying to comment on how the op parents.

He has offered to have her eldest visit, said it would be nice. Hardly said you need to send him or you're a shit parent.

As is typical on AIBU the op has given a scrap of info and posters have added to it, to where the made up facts become the new narrative for newer posters on the chain.

Add into this the posters saying the brother is clearly a sexual offender for wanting to spend time with his nephew it just gets laughable really

I know, but didn't she say that he would then get manipulative if she said no?

I agree the jump to say he's a paedophile is preposterous.

That poster doesn't allow their kids overnights at all, not just with family members who are acting inappropriately
"We don’t let our DC stay overnight with anyone that lives outside our household."
It's severely limiting to children to not allow independence, and to make them so sheltered.

I really can't see why you would get that worked up about it though. They also said that they allowed them age appropriate levels of independence. I'm sure their kids will be just fine.

Your parents - I wouldn't have a problem with if they have a good relationship with the children.

Mine go away with MIL and it's given them lovely memories and reinforced their bond. My 23yo and MIL are going away next weekend for a shared interest and it's lovely that they still have that connection, and both still want to maintain it.

Your brother is a different story - they don't know him. Maybe when they are late teens I'd consider it, but not before.

Especially considering this While my brother is a good person if we say no to him he will use it against us. As a person he's lovely and kind. But can be manipulative when he doesn't get what he wants.

He's not a lovely and kind person if he's also manipulative and uses things against you. He's a manipulative person who is sometimes lovely and kind.

Totally discount your DB's idea. I find it weird tbh. He doesn't have any relationship with them now, has no experience of kids and no intention of having any. I'd question his motives, sorry, just doesn't add up. If he's so desperate to see them, he'd suck it up and come to dreary old England and see everyone else too.

Your parents are another matter. If they are the doting sort then it might be great for the kids. I agree with you that they could start with a w/e in the UK, to see how they handle all 3 of them.

Any reason why this has all come about now? Your oldest is 11 so they've all waited a long time to make this offer.

@takealettermsjones

Nope the op said her brother can be manipulative if he doesn't get his own way

Can and will are very different things

Posters on here saying he is insisting on seeing them etc. he has merely offered based on the OPs posts, no insisting, demanding, manipulating etc.

The second any of those things happens then yes the uncle is being unreasonable, but all he has done at this point is offered to have his nephew visit now he is old enough to fly alone to build a closer bond, since the nephew doesn't cope with FT well.

YANBU, if you’d all spent a lot of time together and the kids really enjoyed time with their uncle and wanted to do this then MAYBE but if they barely know eachother I’d say it’s completely inappropriate? I mean I’d be questioning WHY you shouldn’t be there? Is there something he doesn’t want you to be there for?

Regarding your parents, I think you should allow your children to go with them. I loved holidays with my grandparents and there was 3 of us. The fact that your parents allowed you to have great holidays around Europe shows presidence and I think it is unfair that you stopping that just because you don't want your children to be spoilt. It's not spoiling, it is a huge opportunity to see the bigger world that many children or adults don't get.
Regarding the Uncle in Australia. I have no problem with the brother (I have two of the muppets myself), I have no problem with Australia (I love it there) however I think it's absolutely absurd for an 11 yr old to travel for 24 hrs on their own. Who might they end up sitting next to?? That is my main worry, there has been sexual assults on plane journeys in the papers recently. Go as a family or not at all. Your brother can get to know your children whilst you all go out doing fun touristy things.

Direct quotes from OP:

My brother wants my kids to visit but because he lives in Australia he has barely seen them. We've suggested we all take a family trip but he has no interest and wants to have 121 quality time with the kids without us there?

So he's offered, they've made a counter offer, he's refused and said no, he wants it to be just the kids. Seems insistent to me, of course YMMV.

While my brother is a good person if we say no to him he will use it against us. As a person he's lovely and kind. But can be manipulative when he doesn't get what he wants.

Okay, OP said he will use it against them. Again, seems quite demanding in context, even if the actual words used haven't so far been demands.

My overall point was that it is OP's decision. She doesn't just have to 'get over it' if she doesn't want to. They're her kids and the buck stops with her, ultimately no matter what brother/GPs say.

From your posts it would be something akin to insanity to send your kids to your brothers.

GPs, like you say, start with a weekend and in the same country.

As tempted as I would be to let my dds GPs take her abroad for a week, I'd hate to be in a different country to her in case of accident or illness and not being able to be there.