To think most Brexiteers must now regret their vote?

[hoovermanouvre]

If you voted Brexit, do you feel like you have been able to "Take Back Control?" If so, where? Can anyone state one positive change since Brexit - I would genuinely like to hear at least something. Anything?

YANBU - I voted Brexit but now regret it
YABU - I voted Brexit and can see a benefit

The worst is yet to come. Truss is the mouthpiece for some very self serving people who wanted to continue avoiding paying their fair share of tax. They also claim that regulations stifle the economy. What they mean is those rules that offer protections to workforce or ensure safety standards in goods and materials can be eradicated. The rich will get richer and the rest of us will be shafted. Anything that is good for a ghoul like JRM is going to be disastrous for a lot of us

@GasPanic Funny you think the EU believes we have the financial muscle to bail out the eurozone.

Do you follow current affairs?

@Alexandra2001

Not quite sure how you think "help shore up the currency" equates to "having the financial muscle to bail out the EZ".

Less shouting, more reading and thinking is in order.

I don't really follow current affairs very much no, because the interpretation tends to be noisy and full of hyperbole and desperate people trying to make political capital rather than focused on the fundamentals, which to me are the key things in assessing the long term future. I'm more of a long term analyst than a trader. Things like demographic parameters and debt to GBP are more important to me than what some politician mouthed off about last week.

If we had remained in the EU we more than likely wouldn't have had Boris Johnson and Liz Truss as Prime Ministers.

We would not be having the same run on the pound as we are now, which means that anything we import including much of our domestic fuel is more expensive than it would have been otherwise.

How many benefits do you want?

@GasPanic Its exactly the same thing and you know it.

Actions matter and whats happening with the BoE interventions today, based on that idiot Kwartengs actions, is very much relevant to your post.

The UK, in or out of the EU, has too many problems to bail out or shore up any currency.

We'll soon be a Greece, with the IMF running the show.

Thankyou very much Brexitiers, this all on you.

In that case, you should know full well how spectecularly screwed the UK is because of demographics.

I do long-term complex actuarial calculations for a living.

With an aging population (with rising costs for pensions and healthcare), and limited immigration (young people paying in and not utilising), the only variable that can stop the stagnation is productivity.

You would need to increase productivity by a factor of 200% in order to make the math work.

Instead, the Grey Vote in the UK is intent on suffocating the younger folks to maintain their standars of living.

This is why the pound is collapsing.

Investors see this negative long-term trend as well.

You have way too many unproductive older people in the UK vs productive working people, with the ratio getting worse.

So they mark down UK assets via FX as the UK economy will contract.

And yes, this will get worse in the next few nonths as the BOE stalls on raising rates, as they are terrified of collpasing the property market.

That means large spending cuts coming in November.

This is all fairly predictable if you understand complex financial modelling. Why do you think hedge funds are making out like bandits now?

Instead, the Grey Vote in the UK is intent on suffocating the younger folks to maintain their standars of living.

Bambina so do you think the elderly as well as the stupid shouldn’t be allowed to vote?

@BambinaJAS Instead, the Grey Vote in the UK is intent on suffocating the younger folks to maintain their standars of living.

I'm not sure what this means?

I live in an area where there are a lot of retired people. From what I've seen these are the ones that are having extensions built, fitting double-glazing and a myriad of other home improvements.
So they are certainly putting more into the economy than they are taking out.

Bambina so do you think the elderly as well as the stupid shouldn’t be allowed to vote?*

Add them to the list. We'll forget that they've worked and paid into the economy for longer than most of us, and dismiss their life experience as irrelevant.

Actually, let's just go the whole hog and ban everyone except Bambina from voting as they're the only one suitably qualified apparently.

I gather that empirical research shows that dictatorships can actually be an efficient way of governing, so it's a double win....

The naivete of this post is amazing.

Textbook example of why the UK is in such a mess.

The reality is that the older generation in the UK extract much more than they put in

That difference is being subsidised by working folks and children right now. But we have now reached the end of the line as you simply cannot extract more blood from the stone.

Increasing tax now will not lead to higher tax revenues because the incentive to work will simply be negative. Tax revenue would go down, and not up.

This is basic economics which you should have learned in high school.

Problem is, the average person relies on n=1 or "my peers are buying things" and then extrapolates based on that.

Totally 100% wrong.

But like I said. Over the last few years I have become convinced based on talking to the average person in the UK that the only way anything changes is if the entire country does an economic face plant.

And here we are.

We'll forget that they've worked and paid into the economy for longer than most of us, and dismiss their life experience as irrelevant.

Your assumption here is that life experience is relevant to our world today.

The current generation will work for longer to pay pensions of those guys and the wrecked economy (many not all) their irresponsible decisions have led to.

*You (the older folks) VOTED for exactly this.

This is exactly what happens when you limit immigration of younger folks and have an aging demographic.

I have ZERO sympathy for you as this is totally and completely self-inflicted.*

Um, I'm not one of the older folks. Although I will defend them from being cast aside as worthless and irrelevant as I have respect for others in society.

Nor have I asked for your sympathy so I don't honestly care whether or not you have ZERO sympathy, as you so elegantly put it. And on that note, I'm going to get back to work as I'm part of that working population you so like.

@BambinaJAS
I asked a question because I wanted information.

Instead I get my intelligence insulted.

This is basic economics which you should have learned in high school.

I wasn't taught economics as it wasn't on the curriculum, so there isn't a "should" about it.
I studied Latin and modern languages.

Ego habitus tuus plenus stercore

@BambinaJAS I did latin in primary school.
I am not impressed.
Nor am I impressed by the poor levels of education that I see in the older voter in the UK.
Its abysmally bad.

Your post sounds ageist to me.

Puto adhuc plena stercore 🙂

For sure, level of education is a factor in the Brexit voting patterns, see here:

www.statista.com/statistics/572613/eu-referendum-decision-by-highest-educational-attainment-uk/

I've a PhD in computer science area, and was neutral on the issue (could not vote since I was travelling on work assignment). The results are just beginning to be seen, and they will be played out over 10 or 20 or 30 years. It's not an overnight night thing. Remember, we won two world wars and still lost our empire :) It will take decades, it might work out great, or not.

On a personal level the small English company I work for will be going out of business soon. The hardware components of product are purchased in dollar (like most tech industry) and it means we can't compete. Looks like I'll be able to pick up a better paying job in the same area, but I'll miss my colleagues and the blood/sweat/tears we put into our product.

I was neutral, I'm still neutral, but then again I'm isolated from any impacts to date (apart from enforced job change).

Of course, in the conservatives, some who wanted to stay, and strongly argued for that, are now amongst the strongest supporters of Brexit. (As a conservative voter) I'd classify that as political expediency and opportunism, as seen across many parties.

@OldName78

For sure, level of education is a factor in the Brexit voting patterns, see here:

1077 people of of 33 million is hardly a representative sample.

@MrsHarrisgoestoTimbuctoo If it statistical significant you want, then try this: blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/educational-attainment-brexit/

Since you seem very interested in sampling and statistical significance (I am too!!! it's a large part of my job), if you have evidence or reputable publications to the contrary please do share the links.

The BBC graphs from a long time back are also interesting to view.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028

While it's fascinating to see the voting patterns, it's often hard to identify the reason why they voted like that.

Of course education is a factor, but something people can be very sensitive about understandably.

@Andante57

You've chosen to deliberately misinterpret Bambina's very intelligent point of view and make wild accusations of her being ageist. NOTHING in her post suggested that the elderly are "too stupid to vote."

Maybe her post hit too close to home?

@MrsHarrisgoestoTimbuctoo I did not follow the Brexit results closely at the time (the result was a forgone conclusion where I live). At a high level the soundbites always suggested education as a significant factor. Would be super interested to see some analysis to the contrary.

One other consideration on the young/old debate is the turn out. At the time I seem to remember a lower turn out for younger voters?

I am so fucking pissed off with all the finger pointing at the older generation.

I worked full time from the age of 17 to 60. I raised two children during that time, and did not go to university, so can't be accused of ripping the younger generation off there.

I lived through truly shit times. Scraping pennies together to make Pilchard Hash and baked beans. We were married for 5 years before we had a holiday, faced truly horrendous interest rates, two of our friends actually just handed their keys back to the building society.
I tell you this, not as a sob story, but just to illustrate that none of us had it easy. Our first house was incredibly cheap, but our wages were incredibly tiny and we didn't have the outgoings people have today - and that really does make a huge difference.
I travelled from the North East 3 times to March against Brexit, I support our local refugees, I am so very, very sorry that I was born in 1961. If only I could change it.

I am very lucky with my pension. I fully acknowledge that, but without it, I wouldn't have been able to help my children at uni, to buy them houses, to help them have a secure future. My parents had nothing, they couldn't have bought me a doorbell without it putting them in the red, so it's lovely for me to be able to share.

The division between young and old is becoming quite distressing now. I can't help when I was born - but I heave helped 2 children onto the housing ladder, I do volunteer 2 days a week, I do campaign for a fair future for everyone.

But, according to some on here, that's not enough.

Just what do you want us to do?????

Sorry, I know I'm only picking up on certain posts, but it's getting more and more common to just blame the 'boomers'. And it's lazy, divisive and bloody insulating.

What do do you need to do?

Thats easy.

Start paying in for your healthcare and social care.

The UK is the only developed country that does not make retired people pay in for their healthcare and social care.

Essentially,

It is working people (via NI) that fund healthcare spending.

And 80% of NHS spending is on the over 55s

We are un-productive as a country because we do not invest in the younger generation. Instead, its gets funelled to pay for the ever increasing healthcare and pension costs of the retired population.

When people say "I paid in all my life and I paid the necessary tax"....

As a GROUP, that is FALSE.

All the tax you and the rest of your cohort paid over you working lifetime does NOT cover what you will extract (pensions, healthcare, social care etc.) because your average life expectancy at 65 is now 18 years.

Those 18 years used to be 10 when you were born.

We are going broke as a country because of that.

Ratched Don't worry, most of us don't think that way. The older generation has contributed to society and the economy in a multitude of ways.

Nor am I impressed by the poor levels of education that I see in the older voter in the UK. Its abysmally bad.

I'd put money on the older generation being able to use apostrophes in contractions correctly though. Perhaps their education wasn't so poor after all?