To think most Brexiteers must now regret their vote?

[hoovermanouvre]

If you voted Brexit, do you feel like you have been able to "Take Back Control?" If so, where? Can anyone state one positive change since Brexit - I would genuinely like to hear at least something. Anything?

YANBU - I voted Brexit but now regret it
YABU - I voted Brexit and can see a benefit

It's a really interesting division among people, the attitude to the nation-state as a primary means of political autonomy, vs these kinds of larger organizations.

And often people seem to have very contradictory feelings on this, for example when you look at regions that are advocating for political separation, like Quebec or Scotland, the same people who in general seem to think that the nation-state isn't that important often support these kinds of drives for local political autonomy.

Where have you seen that?

You don't know about the Illuminati?

You and your neighbours elected an MP (whether or not you got the one you wanted, again the nature of democracy is that we go with what the majority wants). An MP who can command a majority of their fellow members will be invited to form a government.

Why don't you enlighten me?

YABU

They walk among us.

When was the last UK election where the party that formed the government was voted for by the majority of the country, or those who voted?

How many MPs voted for Truss in the first round of voting? Surely if FPTP is such a good system, whoever had the most MPs votes in the first round would be Prime Minister?

Like I said last year...

The only atidote to Brexit is the harsh light of economic reality.

You really have no idea who you have voted in because Libertarian politics is not a thing in the UK. It is in the US were I lived for many years, so I know exactly what is coming.

Over the next 24 months, most of the leave-voting folks are going to empoverished to such a degree that they will be squealing for change.

But guess what?

Nobody will lift a finger to help you. You will have to pull yourself up from your bootstraps while not being able to access public services (as these will be cut even further).

The country will slide into 2nd tier status in the world outside of the London area.

The wealthy will become wealthier, the professional class (myself included) will break even, while the rest......will just get poorer.

@BambinaJAS Over the next 24 months, most of the leave-voting folks are going to empoverished to such a degree that they will be squealing for change.

Yes they (and remainers) will. But leavers will still continue denying that it was due to Brexit. They will blame anything and anyone but themselves. And on and on it will go on....I despair...

Doesn't work like that.

I agree with every word. Most of Britain really doesn’t understand what’s happening. Not only that, once the shit really does hit the fan, they’ll vote for further and further right wing governments to fix it all having been convinced it’s immigrants/ Londoners,/middle class elites that are the problem. Brexit opened the door to some very nasty people who wrap themselves in flags but have no care for the U.K. Folks were warned though.

You really have no idea who you have voted in because Libertarian politics is not a thing in the UK. It is in the US were I lived for many years, so I know exactly what is coming

Poor Americans have always had better standards of living than working class Brits. Cope.

Over the next 24 months, most of the leave-voting folks are going to empoverished to such a degree that they will be squealing for change

You sound very happy about this, they won’t be impoverished because of Brexit but because of energy shocks, which is going to deeply hurt the most industrialised countries of Europe (Belgium just stupidly decommissioned a nuclear plant .. ).

Instead of fighting about Brexit for the last how many years, you should have been fracking and building nuclear power plants.

So maybe get off your high horse?

I think one positive of Brexit and I'll get shot in flames for even suggesting anything positive but here goes.

The fact we can no longer import cheap labour to work for us means that there should be more opportunities for careers for young people going forward. We can't just plug gaps with imports but may actually have to train people to do these jobs. I'd imagine that should have been happening anyway but employers took the easier and cheaper route.

Anyway I'll await my stoning.

I’m not really buying this idea of Libertarian politics in the UK,(whether as a result of Brexit or otherwise) when right now the government is having to hand out money to people to help them with energy bills. Since covid, the government has had much more involvement in peoples day to day lives than the Tories represent as a party.

Sorry I meant than the Tories represent.

Its a common misconception that US folks have better living standards vs UK

In the aggregate? Sure.

But that hides vast differences when you compare along the income distribution.

Top 20%? Yes. US is better.

Bottom 30%? No. US is worse.

The working folks in the US (low middle class and below) have it worse than their UK counterparts. This is primarily due to healthcare options (in the US they are crippling while in the UK they are covered by NHS.

The squeezed middle 50%

Vastly depends on what area of the US you live vs UK. Some yes, some no.

To conclude,

The primary reason the US comes out better is because the top 20% in the US make a lot more than the top 20% in the UK per capita.

This is also incorrect.

What will happen is more natives will be pushed to do lower skilled work in the UK.

Also, we will lose some of our comparative advantages as it pertains to higher skilled work, which means those jobs will be exported abroad were they can be done cheaper.

End result is:

The natives replace the immigrants in the lower skilled jobs
Less high skilled jobs for the natives
More high skilled jobs exported abroad

Thats what happens when you curtail immigration for low skilled jobs. Every developed country in the world always has a pipeline for low skilled immigration, so that the natives can focus on higher-paying higher skill work. US, Canada, Norway, Switzerland etc. All do this.

What on earth do you mean by ‘natives’?

Also, I think you mean ‘fewer skilled jobs’

Surely a ‘professional’ like yourself should know this?

This is where I don't agree with remainders. They seem to think that being in the EU is about propping up our lifestyles with a supply of cheap labour rather than raising standards for everyone across the EU.

I would point out that not all jobs can be done remotely and that's what I was mainly talking about. Jobs that would traditionally require an apprenticeship.

Many of the low paid jobs have reverted to what happened when I was a kid and been taken by local teens and students. Standards here have fallen slightly as I'd forgotten what it was like to be served by a surly teen especially now that they can ignore you by looking at their phone 😂

I get fed up with people saying in long-suffering tones: 'Brexit is over' and 'that all happened long ago'.

Brexit is now with us every single day.

That is the thing about choosing to leave - we are stuck with the consequences good or bad. They didn't end when the voting did.

Good/Bad? I've not noticed much happiness from the fishing industry here. (Many Brexiteers amongst them.)

The working folks in the US (low middle class and below) have it worse than their UK counterparts. This is primarily due to healthcare options (in the US they are crippling while in the UK they are covered by NHS

It’s like you never heard of Medicaid. Or are unaware that healthcare cannot be denied, and whilst one gets sticker shock, no one pays the quoted prices that get bandied about in British media. Ofc it’s not perfect but believe me when I say that blue-collar families in America live much better than their working class counterparts in UK.

tbh horrible things are said about the state of the NHS, I don’t know why anyone would choose to give birth there if they didn’t have to (some British expats I know do this, it’s insane the stories I hear when they come back)

Just because it’s free doesn’t make it better.

Look, if you do not want to accept reality that is fine.

None of this is new.

Curtailing immigration for nativist reasons is not new.

The effects are quite predictable.

Many case studies. Switzerland being the easiest to understand given they have FOM and had EU treaties.

They also wanted to stop free movement because of their local nationalists in the 80s. They had the same nonsensical thinking that immigrants depressed wage for the locals.

All they managed to to do over 10 years is empoverish the whole country.

Switzerland then went right back to accepting low-skilled immigration.

And voila...living standards improved for the local population.

This is why I mostly laugh at the Brexit fantasists

They have no idea how delusional they sound.

I am sure they will keep harping on about curtailing immigration to improve local wages until the very end. It was the same in Switzerland.

Doesn't work. Full stop.

tbh horrible things are said about the state of the NHS, I don’t know why anyone would choose to give birth there if they didn’t have to (some British expats I know do this, it’s insane the stories I hear when they come back)

I have seen the NHS go from bad to shocking over the last 13 years. I agree with you about giving birth there. It’s now quite often horrific, with midwives telling you that you are not in labour when you are, due to no space on the delivery suites.