To ask for your views on surrogacy?

[consortiar]

Is it ok a surrogate?

Is it ever ok to use a surrogate?

In what circumstance is it not ok?

In what circumstance is it ok?

Kardashians are an example and other celebs that have lots of money and no time or possibly inclination to be pregnant?

Lesbians presumably can carry their own baby with the use of a sperm donor.

What about gay couple that would like to use their sperm and an egg donor?

If it's not ok. What is it specifically that is wrong?

Couples that cannot have children due to the woman not being able to carry a baby, do they lose their entitlement to have a biological child due to the perceived wrong in using a surrogate?

There's a billion threads on this already.

And why do you want to know? You sound awfully like you're after material for an article tbh.

Do I? I'm not, I'm just on the fence about it and can't work out if I agree then do I have to agree in each and every circumstance or can I be selective about what is ok and what is not.

Why do I want to know? Because I think discussion and debate is important and my circle of friends are quite similar so wouldn't necessarily get the breadth of responses likely to be received on here.

That's like saying why do you want to know anything. I have a curious mind.

I don't believe surrogacy is ok under any circumstances. I know life isn't usually black and white like that. I imagine the pain of infertility or inability to have children with a same sex partner must be unbearable. But when you create a new life, it must be in the baby's best interest. For most couples that means considering whether you can afford to provide your children with everything they need. Deliberately creating a baby with the intention of removing her from her birth mother shortly after birth is wrong.

It won't be long before someone compares surrogacy with adoption. It really should not be this difficult for grown adults to see that there is a stark difference between the two. Consider how hard social work try to keep children of any age with their own families, even in circumstances where the conditions at home are far from ideal. Consider how grave a decision it is to remove a child from her birth mother. Adoption is making the best of a bad situation. Surrogacy is planning for that trauma.

You dont always have to have an opinion on everything. Sometimes it's OK to stop back and say "this hasn't touched me personally so I'm reserving judgement.

Otherwise pro it enables people who wouldn't be have to have children tonhave children, which can be a truly joyous thing.

Con: it puts the needs of adults above needs both, recognised and unrecognised, of mother and baby.
Often money is involved and this makes the question of consent problematic.
It can make the legal responsibilities complex

Surrogacy is wrong. Women and babies are not a commodity. Women are not "breeders" "birthing vessels" or any other woke asshole word which dehumanises us.

It's the same as prostitution, renting our wombs out, and like the sex trade it's very open to coercion/trafficking/exploitation of the poorest women.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/25/surrogacy-sweden-ban

I do think there are a a couple of surrogacy situations that aren't immoral in relation to the birth mother but every single one is immoral in relation to the baby/child/adult created. Have you ever heard of the Primal Wound?

I also don't believe anyone is 'entitled' to having children, certainly not to the detriment of at least two other humans so I could never support surrogacy.

Close relations used a surrogate for their child, the surrogate had a terrible birth but everything was okay in the end.

I often thought about if something bad happened to her what her children would think. It's a terrible risk to supply another couple with a child.

My issue with it is that the surrogate placed herself in danger for another couple that would ultimately walk away with her baby, and if anything bad happened that there was really no consequences for them.

They had another surrogate before that who had a baby with a chromosomal issue that was so bad the pregnancy had to be terminated. The surrogate had to give birth, it was very traumatic for all involved.

I just think it's different doing it for yourself and your partner than strangers who walk away ultimately not having the same repercussions.

There are so many threads on this. I think it’s wrong in all circumstances. You can’t buy an organ from someone who is willing and consents yet you can buy a whole actual person and take it from its mother (yes the woman who grows the baby from her own body is the mother whether this is achieved by using a donor egg or not). So wrong. It doesn’t centre the needs of the child.

Couples that cannot have children due to the woman not being able to carry a baby, do they lose their entitlement to have a biological child due to the perceived wrong in using a surrogate?

There is no entitlement to a biological child or indeed any child.

It creates a trauma for the baby for the sake of want, not need. Morally that seems utterly incomprehensible to create such circumstances.

Somehow, humans have adapted this information to state that the new bond with the non birth mother will be good enough- which in many ways it will be as that child will likely be cared for and supported to adulthood.

That separation injury remains for that individual however and can cause issues all throughout their development and into adulthood.

That the narrative remains that children are a right to have means it's unlikely to change the wider perspective.

Many issues with 'rent a womb' of a woman who needs the financial support for herself or other existing children, too.

Wrong. Always wrong.
Makes babies a commodity that can be bought and sold.
Makes women into breeding machines.
I have utter contempt for those who profit from women like this. And I despise the narrative that has sprung up around it, particularly in Ireland. A movement to normalise it. So wrong.

I think surrogacy is always wrong.

It's buying a baby and renting a womb. Children aren't fashion accessories and women aren't for hire.

We know from endless research that removing a baby from its mother causes untold pain and lifelong damage. Hence why we don't remove puppies and kittens from their mother until 8 weeks.

Removing a child from it's mother is sometimes a necessary evil, hence why adoption exists. In some cases we do it for the protection of the child.

But to create a child PURELY to traumatize it by removing it from its mother is utterly dystopian and evil.

No one is entitled to a child.

I used to think it was ok.

If you have the money to pay for someone else to do it then why not?
If you choose to be a surrogate for money/altruistic reasons then why not?
If couples can't have kids then it's a solution.

Then I really thought about it.

My previous thoughts were only about the adults in the situation and what they wanted. I didn't really think about the newborn baby. If you think only what is in the best interest of the baby it's so so wrong.
Think about what a sad situation it is when a baby is forcibly removed at birth by social services, even if it's for the right reasons. It is never a good thing to sever that bond but sometimes that decision needs to be made in the best interest of the child and it's a decision not taken lightly.

Surrogacy is creating a baby with the intention of taking it away all along. It's seriously fucked up.

Then you have the extreme situations of surrogates in different countries which came to light during covid. It blows my mind that women would use other women in this way. Fucked up.

I can't imagine what it's like growing up in to an adult knowing that your parents paid a poor Ukrainian woman to carry and give birth to you whilst they carried on with their lives in a different country. Then when you were born they flew over to pick you up.
FUCKED UP.

My sister in laws sister (never met) had an 'altruistic' arrangement after years of fertility struggles. The reality was they were just too old when they started to try, both 40's.
They were 46 and 48 when their son was born to a surrogate using a donor egg. I won't deny they love him and he'll have a happy childhood but again he was taken from his mother at birth. Whatever the arrangement, what ever the intentions the situation is still the same for the newborn.

So, it's safe to say my opinion has changed.

I don't consider a surrogate to be the child's mother simply because she carried saud child. The child is genetically related to the women who's eggs they were conceived from. Opening up donor eggs and surrogacy has allowed women to conceive and men who wouldn't otherwise been able to have a family have one. I'd include sperms donation in this too. Things were a lot simpler before these advances were made. There is a lot of terminology around biological parents, legal parents etc.

Do I agree with surrogacy, if the women is happy to undergo it then that is her choice. However I am made uncomfortable that in countries like India or Ukraine it is for financial gain. My pregnancies have taken a toll on my body and I have high risk pregnancies and csection births, I would not do it for anyone else no matter how much you paid me (I'd be a shit candidate anyway). There is almost always a financial disparity between the surrogate and users and I find that very difficult, I'm not in favour of it but I am not vehemently against like you will often see on mumsnet. I simply think that there are certain things you shouldn't be able to buy and children are one of them, make of that what you will.

It’s putting the wants of intended parents before the needs of the baby. It says a lot about their parenting style.

I agree. I just cannot agree with deliberately removing a child from its mother. Must be so traumatic for both of them.

Nobody has an “entitlement “ to a child
Surrogacy is awful

I don't agree with surrogacy. If you take the wants of the adults involved out of the equation and think only of the child I don't see how you could agree with it really. Children aren't a commodity to be bought and sold imo.

I am an adoptive parent. My child was removed at birth and placed with me as a newborn as this was the only safe option for them. The complexities and implications of this for my child have been profound and still not yet fully understood.

Every decision made by social workers and the courts from before their birth has been scrutinised to ensure it was in my child’s best interests.

To adopt my child, every aspect of my life was scrutinised and assessed to ensure I was the right parent for my child. I also undertook extensive training.

Trauma associated with their adoption are acknowledged through the wider systems in place - school, therapy services etc.

None of these protections are in place for surrogate babies.

in my view adoption is about finding parents for children and centres the needs of the child. Surrogacy is about getting a baby for adults and centres the wishes of parents. That’s the bit I have a problem with.

That's a lot of questions from you OP without giving us your considered opinion.

Agreed

Is it ok a surrogate?
No

Is it ever ok to use a surrogate?
No

In what circumstance is it not ok?
All - same sex couples, people that don't want to ruin their body, people that cannot have their own children

In what circumstance is it ok?
Never

I agree with surrogacy. Friend of mine is looking into it now. She is 30, was diagnosed with ovarian cancer aged 27, was able to do rounds of egg harvesting before beginning treatment with the purpose of carrying them herself but now has womb cancer.

Like a lot of things its actually better and safer when legalised and regulated. In LA for example the surrogate cannot use her own egg and must be educated to a certain level and have a certain level of income which helps with keeping it safwd for all involved.

On the fence about what

Becoming a surrogate?

Its morally wrong to create a baby with the specific intention of removing it from the only mother it knows.

Unless it's a family member eg your own sister, it makes me feel very uncomfortable.

Wombs for hire. And I worry long term wealthy people will stop going through childbirth and only poor women will.

There is always risk, even with modern medicine. You can end up with terrible post birth injuries. It should not be taken lightly.