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AIBU?

To ask for your views on surrogacy?

247 replies

consortiar · 17/09/2022 06:32

Is it ok a surrogate?

Is it ever ok to use a surrogate?

In what circumstance is it not ok?

In what circumstance is it ok?

Kardashians are an example and other celebs that have lots of money and no time or possibly inclination to be pregnant?

Lesbians presumably can carry their own baby with the use of a sperm donor.

What about gay couple that would like to use their sperm and an egg donor?

If it's not ok. What is it specifically that is wrong?

Couples that cannot have children due to the woman not being able to carry a baby, do they lose their entitlement to have a biological child due to the perceived wrong in using a surrogate?

OP posts:
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CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 17/09/2022 23:36

Every pregnancy carries risks. Nobody is entitled to put a woman at risk because they feel they are entitled to a baby.

The ukraine surrogacy hospitals during the pandemic when people couldn't collect their commodities - aka babies, was an absolute travesty.

It's exploitation. If it wasn't, why don't rich women act as surrogates for poorer people who couldn't have babies?

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ultimateforks · 17/09/2022 23:37

CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 17/09/2022 23:36

Every pregnancy carries risks. Nobody is entitled to put a woman at risk because they feel they are entitled to a baby.

The ukraine surrogacy hospitals during the pandemic when people couldn't collect their commodities - aka babies, was an absolute travesty.

It's exploitation. If it wasn't, why don't rich women act as surrogates for poorer people who couldn't have babies?

Is being a cleaner exploitation?

If not, why don't rich women clean other peoples homes for money

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CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 17/09/2022 23:38

Porcupineintherough · 17/09/2022 20:57

I think if I want to carry a baby for a sister or cousin then it's no one's business but ours.

Well yes, true. But would you put a female relative in the position of potentially risking her life just so you could have a baby?

I couldn't ask that of anyone I loved.

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lljkk · 17/09/2022 23:39

I mildly supportive. Mostly I don't care. Why must you develop an opinion about this, OP?

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CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 17/09/2022 23:41

ultimateforks · 17/09/2022 23:37

Is being a cleaner exploitation?

If not, why don't rich women clean other peoples homes for money

You're comparing being a cleaner to carrying someone else's child for 9 months and having the baby removed at birth from its mother?

You're really saying that cleaning someone's house, is on par with carrying a baby for them? 🙄

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EmeraldShamrock1 · 17/09/2022 23:42

Thankfully I didn't suffer with infertility so it is probably more clear cut for me to say I'm against it.

I'd would have carried a baby for either of my sisters if they'd suffered infertility.

I thought in a situation where there was love it is more acceptable though reading about a local celebrity and his husband's newborn born from surrogacy from his Dsis it didn't feel right.

If his Dsis had DC already it probably wouldn't seem as harsh like a financial transaction.

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ultimateforks · 17/09/2022 23:43

@CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop

Nope

You've stated its exploitation because you don't see rich women doing it

That's simply not true

There are many things wealthy people don't do, and pay others for

Whether you like it or not surrogacy for many is a job, one, like many jobs that has risks

There are a host of jobs a lot less well paid than surrogacy that are far more dangerous too.

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CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 17/09/2022 23:45

Thankfully I didn't suffer with infertility so it is probably more clear cut for me to say I'm against it

I'd would have carried a baby for either of my sisters if they'd suffered infertility

Easy to say when its hypothetical.

I adore my sisters, but I wouldn't do it because I have a child.

Would your own children have factored into your decision? What if something went wrong and your own children were left with no mother?

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Codswallop20 · 17/09/2022 23:47

My absolutely gorgeous and lovely

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CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 17/09/2022 23:49

ultimateforks · 17/09/2022 23:43

@CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop

Nope

You've stated its exploitation because you don't see rich women doing it

That's simply not true

There are many things wealthy people don't do, and pay others for

Whether you like it or not surrogacy for many is a job, one, like many jobs that has risks

There are a host of jobs a lot less well paid than surrogacy that are far more dangerous too.

That was one of the points I made. But it still stands.

Please let me know a more exploitative way someone with money, can use a woman's body.

Ultimately, I would not potentially risk another woman's life for my own wants and needs.

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ultimateforks · 17/09/2022 23:51

@CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop

You've never heard of prostitution?

That's a far worse way for those with money to exploit a woman's body

Do you not think a woman has the right to decide what happens to her own body, her own uterus?

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Codswallop20 · 17/09/2022 23:52

Whoops!

My absolutely lovely and gorgeous gay friends have a child who was born via surrogate. He is a beautiful and happy, loved child. His parents are fantastic and almost certainly better than me, female baby maker by gender.

I know what they went through with the surrogacy and it was not easy at all, they went through hell and back for their child. It was dedication that I doubt many of us would have.

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EthicalNonMahogany · 18/09/2022 00:07

So many parts to this debate. But to pick two of them...

"Surrogates are poor" - yes there is even in the UK a divide of wealth between intended parents and surrogates. But the UK laws permit altruistic surrogacy and these parents are simply not allowed by the courts to pay more than "reasonable expenses" plus of course insurance and provision for if anything goes wrong. So there's an element of protection for surrogates in that nobody is going to be driven to surrogacy by poverty, as the "financial rewards" don't stack up. Is that any better than the US, etc, does it make the whole thing less transactional and put more emphasis on one woman giving a huge and self sacrificing piece of help to another (woman or couple)?

"Ripping the baby away from its mother at birth causes the primal wound and damages the baby as it's the only mother it has known" How about when the baby is genetically Mother A's baby and carried by Mother B? The things that we might infer cause the primal wound would be the baby having the wrong smell, colours, textures around it so it feels scared and wrong and the attachment process in the brain doesn't work and baby possibly doesn't develop so well. But who's to say that the baby doesn't recognise its genetic mother on a primal level? Maybe it's better for that baby to go to Mother A at the moment after birth? In any case it is all speculative as there are no studies of outcomes of different kinds of surrogacy babies. And birth mothers vary too, from those who are very ill and can't hold the baby, depressed, etc. Is a lactating genetic mother better for her genetic baby vs a birth surrogate mother who doesn't want to hold the baby for whatever reason.....

In short it's not about finding edge cases but the more you look the greyer the area becomes.

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TheOtherWoman2 · 18/09/2022 00:12

My daughter is in her early 20s and due to illness in her teenage years, she has been told it’d be unsafe for her to carry her own child. I will completely support her when it comes to the point, that her and her husband use a surrogate. They have met a lot of different people and they absolutely plan on going down this route in the forthcoming years. From what I’ve heard all surrogacy agencies/past surrogate mothers have been open about the payment and consideration for safety of the surrogate, both of which are at an excellent standard

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Sunnytwobridges · 18/09/2022 00:12

I’m in the minority as I don’t have a problem with it.

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CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 18/09/2022 00:19

ultimateforks · 17/09/2022 23:51

@CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop

You've never heard of prostitution?

That's a far worse way for those with money to exploit a woman's body

Do you not think a woman has the right to decide what happens to her own body, her own uterus?

Surrogacy is using a woman's body as a commodity.

Why is that different from prostitution. Another form of exploitation.

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Ponderingwindow · 18/09/2022 00:21

I’m embarrassed to admit that at one point I seriously considered using a surrogate to have a child. Now that I better understand how all consuming a pregnancy can be on a woman’s daily life and the risks she accepts with a pregnancy, I simply can’t support the system. It is not the same as a one time donation of an organ. Carrying a baby simply takes so much time and has so many potential variables and complications along the way. Considering it a job is inappropriate. The risks are far too high to be acceptable for any kind of pay. Considering it an act of altruism just doesn’t pass muster either. No one dies without a surrogate. No one loses anyone. There is simply not a new life created. Again, the risk vs benefit just isn’t acceptable.

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CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 18/09/2022 00:30

Do you not think a woman has the right to decide what happens to her own body, her own uterus?

Of course I do. Many surrogates are not in this position. And by making it okay through altruism and privilege, makes it okay for women who are not in that position, to gestate babies for richer people. It becomes more normalised.

So all the babies left in the pandemic and the abuse of baby farming in places like Nigeria, because a minority do it the 'acceptable' way, it makes it all acceptable?

I know it's not all or nothing and understand the grey areas, but the OP asked for opinions, and I'm giving mine.

It's all a bit too Gilead for me. When you have celebs saying they just didn't know when they could fit in the time to have a baby (Lucy lui), but wanted one, it becomes a little unpalatable.

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5zeds · 18/09/2022 00:41

@Hotandbothereds But your journey did lead to parenthood, no matter how hard and painful that was, it’s not the situation I’m describin I think that’s a bit like telling a mother of two that she has no idea what having an only child is like. People who have been through extended fertility treatment very much DO know what it’s like to want a child and not have one. In my case that involved loss, and extensive fertility treatment. I also know what it’s like to carry a child and the impact on your body.

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CaptainBarbosa · 18/09/2022 01:07

I think for me the problem is surrogacy has become commercial. It's a factory generating a product with capitalism at the core.

It has massive human rights issues, including trafficking and exploration at the heart of it also.

It's funny isn't it, people won't buy a fur coat of any kind because of animal rights and due to the fact that "some" of the animals are misstreated. Some pelts are made from animals that were killed for food consumption, and that's then used in the manufacture of garments rather than it be wasted. But the written rule is no fur, fur is murder, and we accept that because it's to minimize the trade and discourage the cruel treatment of animals globally.

But people can't see the same in baby/uterus trafficking. Just because your surrogate was not poor, trafficked and exploited doesn't mean it's not happening. And the more it's glorified as ok, the more blood money that is being transferred elsewhere in the world because look "it's ok, this celebrity couple did it, and raved about it in a magazine" it's fashionable. But for every one "well looked after surrogate" their are hundreds that are not.

So if we can apply a all out not accepted rule to a fur coat, why not to a woman's body?

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Namenic · 18/09/2022 01:44

Paid surrogacy has similar problems to paid organ donation - pregnancy has many medical risks (including death and long term issues - tears, hysterectomy, mental health issues). Payment exploits people’s desperation for money - and people may end up making decisions they regret.

babies seek comfort from their mothers and depriving them of that at birth can cause issues in the short term - eg they can be rooting for milk. I suppose people don’t know whether this has any long term effects (it may or may not).

it could be traumatic for the surrogate to be separated from the baby - in a way that they didn’t anticipate when they agreed to it.

when the child grows up they may wish to find out who was the person who carried and gave birth to them. They may also wish to seek out any sperm or egg donors. These may cause psychological issues.

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NotBadConsidering · 18/09/2022 02:15

Codswallop20 · 17/09/2022 23:52

Whoops!

My absolutely lovely and gorgeous gay friends have a child who was born via surrogate. He is a beautiful and happy, loved child. His parents are fantastic and almost certainly better than me, female baby maker by gender.

I know what they went through with the surrogacy and it was not easy at all, they went through hell and back for their child. It was dedication that I doubt many of us would have.

Two men “went through hell” did they? 🤨

What about the baby’s mother? What did she go through? Where is she now? Did she have any complications? Does she regret being involved? If she was in Ukraine is she still alive? How does she feel about having her baby removed? The child is happy; will he wonder who his mother is when he’s older? Will he ever know or be able to find out?

Such a blinkered view of “success” around surrogacy held there. And “dedication”: two men “dedicated” to finding a woman’s body to use to give them what they want. Delightful.

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marvellousmaple · 18/09/2022 02:35

This 👆

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funzeny · 18/09/2022 02:52

@GreenEggsAndBabycham million threads before but this is the first one I've seen and I'm completely shocked and changed about this now. Never realised how horrific and selfish people are to even consider it.

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fallfallfall · 18/09/2022 02:54

family for family surrogacy seems fine to me. mother for daughter or sisters for one another maybe even cousins. for most people pregnancy is without issue and if it's done under medical supervision the surrogate would be fully health checked.

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