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AIBU?

To ask for your views on surrogacy?

247 replies

consortiar · 17/09/2022 06:32

Is it ok a surrogate?

Is it ever ok to use a surrogate?

In what circumstance is it not ok?

In what circumstance is it ok?

Kardashians are an example and other celebs that have lots of money and no time or possibly inclination to be pregnant?

Lesbians presumably can carry their own baby with the use of a sperm donor.

What about gay couple that would like to use their sperm and an egg donor?

If it's not ok. What is it specifically that is wrong?

Couples that cannot have children due to the woman not being able to carry a baby, do they lose their entitlement to have a biological child due to the perceived wrong in using a surrogate?

OP posts:
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lljkk · 19/09/2022 20:08

tbh, this thread has been good for cementing that I am on the pro-surrogacy/choice side. I could have leant towards being on the fence before, but this lot of ranting blinkered views, I'm totally convinced now that surrogacy is a mostly good thing (and most PP are utter nutjobs).

OP is a git or a journo or both. Shell.

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ReneBumsWombats · 19/09/2022 21:42

lljkk · 19/09/2022 20:08

tbh, this thread has been good for cementing that I am on the pro-surrogacy/choice side. I could have leant towards being on the fence before, but this lot of ranting blinkered views, I'm totally convinced now that surrogacy is a mostly good thing (and most PP are utter nutjobs).

OP is a git or a journo or both. Shell.

That's really interesting. It's had the complete opposite effect on me. I don't agree with everything all the anti-surrogates have said. But the pro-surrogacy camp, with its double standards, dehumanising and erasure of women, disregard towards the babies' welfare, dictatorial attitude towards their feelings and complete inability to respond to any of the very good questions that have been put to them about it all, means I really can't align with them on it.

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TwinkleChristmas · 19/09/2022 21:49

ReneBumsWombats · 19/09/2022 13:46

If the only thing you've got in favour of your opinion is that it's not illegal to hold it, it's hardly a ringing endorsement.

Once someone's down to "well I'm allowed to say it", it's clear as day there's fuck all else.

Pretty sure the OP was asking people their opinion on it… she never asked the bloody law around it.

Im allowed to say I think it’s fine to rent a womb if everyone is in agreement.

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TheKeatingFive · 19/09/2022 21:51

Im allowed to say I think it’s fine to rent a womb if everyone is in agreement.

Would you say the same about selling a kidney? If everyone is in agreement?

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ReneBumsWombats · 19/09/2022 21:54

TwinkleChristmas · 19/09/2022 21:49

Pretty sure the OP was asking people their opinion on it… she never asked the bloody law around it.

Im allowed to say I think it’s fine to rent a womb if everyone is in agreement.

Like I said, if all you've got in favour of your opinion is that there's no law against expressing it, that's pretty weak.

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NotBadConsidering · 19/09/2022 22:07

TwinkleChristmas · 19/09/2022 13:44

Because it’s not their baby. It’s the baby of whoever the egg belongs too.

So a woman who is not a surrogate, having a baby with a donated egg because of a genetic issue: that isn’t and is never her baby?

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roopeedoopeedooo · 19/09/2022 22:13

"Because it’s not their baby. It’s the baby of whoever the egg belongs too."

@TwinkleChristmas

The baby doesn't have the faintest idea who it's genetic/biological parents are. The only thing it knows and can recognise is the body, the mother that has carried it for 9 months. That's all it wants, it's biologically programmed to recognise the only mother it knows. That baby doesn't care about genetics. It cares about its mother. And the mother is the woman that carried it.

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NotBadConsidering · 19/09/2022 22:16

lljkk · 19/09/2022 20:08

tbh, this thread has been good for cementing that I am on the pro-surrogacy/choice side. I could have leant towards being on the fence before, but this lot of ranting blinkered views, I'm totally convinced now that surrogacy is a mostly good thing (and most PP are utter nutjobs).

OP is a git or a journo or both. Shell.

Surrogacy is mostly a good thing? PP are nut jobs?

Mostly, around the world, surrogacy is rich western people paying poor people in places like Ukraine to have babies for them. You think people opposed to this, where babies have been abandoned like in this BBC video are nutters? Even if you think surrogacy is occasionally a good thing, you can’t surely think that it’s mostly a good thing when it’s mostly situations like this, statistically?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v_wjegFh3tw

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MrsJamin · 19/09/2022 22:22

TwinkleChristmas · 19/09/2022 21:49

Pretty sure the OP was asking people their opinion on it… she never asked the bloody law around it.

Im allowed to say I think it’s fine to rent a womb if everyone is in agreement.

Is it fine to rent a woman?

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TwinkleChristmas · 19/09/2022 22:36

ReneBumsWombats · 19/09/2022 21:54

Like I said, if all you've got in favour of your opinion is that there's no law against expressing it, that's pretty weak.

Well lucky for me I don’t care if you think it’s weak or not.

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TwinkleChristmas · 19/09/2022 22:43

roopeedoopeedooo · 19/09/2022 22:13

"Because it’s not their baby. It’s the baby of whoever the egg belongs too."

@TwinkleChristmas

The baby doesn't have the faintest idea who it's genetic/biological parents are. The only thing it knows and can recognise is the body, the mother that has carried it for 9 months. That's all it wants, it's biologically programmed to recognise the only mother it knows. That baby doesn't care about genetics. It cares about its mother. And the mother is the woman that carried it.

The baby won’t and doesn’t remember who carried it.

Babies will settle for anyone if they are fed, warm, clean.

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JaninaDuszejko · 19/09/2022 22:47

No-one has the right to a child and no-one has the right to buy someone else's uterus. You can't buy someone's kidneys, or vagina or blood so what makes a uterus different?

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EmeraldShamrock1 · 19/09/2022 22:55

The baby won’t and doesn’t remember who carried it.
They don't stay babies, children ask questions, do you think parents should lie? What if there is genetic issues down the lie.
If they choose to be honest you can bet your life the children will have questions, whenever they're angry or sad they'll wonder about their birth mother/egg donor.
Babies will settle for anyone if they are fed, warm, clean.

You'd think.

Skin to skin is vital after a birth in order for the baby to recognise their safety net on the outside.
The same skin they've become familiar with over 9 months.

There'll be a detachment in most cases.
Again they don't stay babies.

My Dsis hairdresser is due to collect his 3rd daughter from Greece, he choose 3 very different looking donors so the girls won't grow looking alike, jolly little experience creating obvious differences purposely in your DC.

It needs to be regulated.

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Ikeatears · 19/09/2022 23:17

lljkk · 19/09/2022 20:08

tbh, this thread has been good for cementing that I am on the pro-surrogacy/choice side. I could have leant towards being on the fence before, but this lot of ranting blinkered views, I'm totally convinced now that surrogacy is a mostly good thing (and most PP are utter nutjobs).

OP is a git or a journo or both. Shell.

Clearly, you never grew up not knowing your genetic identity. You didn't feel that 'something' was 'off'. You didn't have a family who loved you but you felt disconnected from. You didn't eventually find your birth family after many years and suddenly understand how it feels to look into your own eyes in someone else's face or understand where your singing voice came from or your psoriasis. You didn't meet your newborn nephew and suddenly realise that your own children aren't just clones of your husband and his family. These things matter. I don't believe you have lived them (I could be wrong and if I am, I apologise). When you grow up knowing what your biological identity is, it's hard to appreciate the importance of it.
The primal wound is real. I don't agree with surrogacy or anonymous sperm donation or closed adoption. Nobody has the right to steal from a person in that way. It is the theft of identity and that, for many, many people, often caused lifelong trauma.

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howdoesatoastermaketoast · 20/09/2022 02:47

@PunchyAnts "Deliberately creating a baby with the intention of removing her from her birth mother shortly after birth is wrong"

pretty much sums it up for me. I was more unsure before having kids of my own and seeing how things were panning out but now I'm just "no" imo it is never ok, never justified or reasonable.

  1. same sex couples : Gay couples should, in my opinion, be able to adopt subject to the exact same hoops and hurdles as other couples no more no less. Lesbian couples, single women and heterosexual couples that need it for IVF should have access to Donor sperm. No, donor sperm and donor eggs are not the same thing.
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Meili04 · 20/09/2022 02:57

Why do we think it's unacceptable to separate puppies and kittens from their mother at birth but it's ok for humans? The baby might not be the surrogate biological child but the baby will know it's mother's heartbeat, smell and voice. It seems incredibly cruel to order babies then separate them from the only mother they know.

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Meili04 · 20/09/2022 03:06

I'm completely against commercial surrogacy. The only one I would be happy with is altruistic a sister helping a sibling with no money involved. There would still be a relationship with the wider family unit and transition baby to intended parents would be taken slowly

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Patapouf · 20/09/2022 03:47

Have you got an essay due tomorrow OP 🤔


Surrogacy is intrinsically linked with trafficking. It is often very exploitative.

Nobody is entitled to have a biological child, especially not at the expense of a woman sacrificing her body/time and health.

It is not child centred, the baby is created with the intention of removing it from the only mother it knows at birth.

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ReneBumsWombats · 20/09/2022 07:12

TwinkleChristmas · 19/09/2022 22:36

Well lucky for me I don’t care if you think it’s weak or not.

Unluckily for babies and vulnerable women, you don't care about them either.

Traffickers love you, though.

This is really all you've got, isn't it?

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TwinkleChristmas · 20/09/2022 17:49

ReneBumsWombats · 20/09/2022 07:12

Unluckily for babies and vulnerable women, you don't care about them either.

Traffickers love you, though.

This is really all you've got, isn't it?

Well I literally do not care what you think and I don’t care about debating with you so yup 👍🏻

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ReneBumsWombats · 20/09/2022 18:32

TwinkleChristmas · 20/09/2022 17:49

Well I literally do not care what you think and I don’t care about debating with you so yup 👍🏻

Then you'll be happy to let me have the last word. Your opinion dehumanises women, dismisses the needs of babies and plays into the hands of traffickers. It is utterly worthless at best and everything you have given us since stating it is further proof of how ignorant and ill-considered it is.

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AngeloMysterioso · 20/09/2022 18:44

Having a child is not a right, and just because you are unable to conceive and/or carry your own for whatever reason, be it infertility or sexuality or health concerns, that doesn’t make it ok to use another woman’s body to do the job for you. Even if you pay her. Even if it’s completely altruistic and she’s more than happy and willing to do it. Even if she offered to do it. Because even if that is the case, regardless of whose egg and sperm were involved, you will still be taking a newborn infant away from it’s Mother- the only person it has ever known, the only person in the world it truly needs- because you wanted to fill a hole in your life. Anybody capable of being that cruel and selfish has no business being a parent in the first place.

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