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AIBU?

To ask for your views on surrogacy?

247 replies

consortiar · 17/09/2022 06:32

Is it ok a surrogate?

Is it ever ok to use a surrogate?

In what circumstance is it not ok?

In what circumstance is it ok?

Kardashians are an example and other celebs that have lots of money and no time or possibly inclination to be pregnant?

Lesbians presumably can carry their own baby with the use of a sperm donor.

What about gay couple that would like to use their sperm and an egg donor?

If it's not ok. What is it specifically that is wrong?

Couples that cannot have children due to the woman not being able to carry a baby, do they lose their entitlement to have a biological child due to the perceived wrong in using a surrogate?

OP posts:
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NotBadConsidering · 18/09/2022 03:14

fallfallfall · 18/09/2022 02:54

family for family surrogacy seems fine to me. mother for daughter or sisters for one another maybe even cousins. for most people pregnancy is without issue and if it's done under medical supervision the surrogate would be fully health checked.

What checks and safeguarding strategies do you propose to make sure there is no coercion between family members?

For example, if a family member is going to donate a kidney, they have to undergo extensive psychological assessment to make sure they’re doing it freely and fully understanding of the consequences. Many families carry longstanding guilt and complex relationships meaning such decisions are tainted. And surrogacy results in another human being at the end of it being placed without choice into such circumstances. There are all sorts of stories about being guilted into different things for family members; “I can’t believe you won’t do this for your own sister!” sort of thing.

So how do we check for coercion or guilt? Because in my view it’s inevitably going to happen.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 18/09/2022 03:19

Commercial surrogacy is wrong in all it's forms. Selling babies and renting wombs. Just no.

I see altruistic surrogacy similarly to live organ donation. And live organ donors should go through extensive counselling and examination to make sure there is no coercion or pressure or psychological issues involved.

Even then it makes me very uncomfortable.

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Oliverfunyuns · 18/09/2022 03:26

I see nothing wrong with it, as long as the woman acting as surrogate does so freely of her own will (and I recognise that there could be problems enforcing this, but I don't think it's a common issue in developed countries where women have equal rights).

I don't think a baby knows or cares who raises it, on a meaningful level, if it is loved and its needs are met. I don't see any difference between a woman giving up a child for adoption and a woman acting as surrogate.

Personally, I don't approve of surrogacy when it's done for convenience's sake (celebs who can't be bothered to go through pregnancy), but I have much less issue with surrogacy than I do with people who use abortion essentially as afterthought birth control.

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Oliverfunyuns · 18/09/2022 03:28

*I should have said that a baby doesn't care who births it, especially when that person isn't their genetic mother... Who raises a baby is much more important, in my view.

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NotBadConsidering · 18/09/2022 03:48

Oliverfunyuns · 18/09/2022 03:26

I see nothing wrong with it, as long as the woman acting as surrogate does so freely of her own will (and I recognise that there could be problems enforcing this, but I don't think it's a common issue in developed countries where women have equal rights).

I don't think a baby knows or cares who raises it, on a meaningful level, if it is loved and its needs are met. I don't see any difference between a woman giving up a child for adoption and a woman acting as surrogate.

Personally, I don't approve of surrogacy when it's done for convenience's sake (celebs who can't be bothered to go through pregnancy), but I have much less issue with surrogacy than I do with people who use abortion essentially as afterthought birth control.

Women are coerced, trafficked, divorced of their rights in huge numbers in so-called developed countries. Surrogacy would be just another thing that evolves to do the same, if so called “altruistic” surrogacy was normalised. Many developed countries have banned it outright for this reason. It’s banned in most of Europe - France, Germany, Italy etc.

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Flutterbybudget · 18/09/2022 04:00

I can fully understand the desperate urge to have a child. I would prefer people to adopt a child that desperately needs a loving home. I know how difficult it can be to adopt a child, unfortunately it doesn’t always work out, no matter how good the intentions of everyone involved. I feel that surrogacy doesn’t solve all the problems that on paper it “should”. I know that I could have been a surrogate for my own sister, but not for anyone else. I don’t think that I’m in a position to judge what anyone else does, however, I have serious concerns about women’s bodies being exploited for commercial purposes, and babies becoming “commodities” in the world that we live in.

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Delphinium20 · 18/09/2022 04:48

BurnDownTheDiscoHangTheDJ · 17/09/2022 23:28

The problem with surrogacy is that it's almost always not between equals. Those using surrogates are (almost always) rich and those who become surrogates are (almost always) poor. Therefore it's a problem. If it was genuinely between equal groups then it would be different, but the nature of how it's organised (here, but more so in places like the US) mean it's not a level playing field between would-be parents and the women carrying the babies.

THIS! You never see celebrities or wealthy women offering to be surrogates for lower-income families, despite plenty of wealthy women doing many other charitable things.

In rare cases, some surrogacy seems less worse than others (a mother who carried her grandchild for her daughter, a sister w/ children carries for her sister), but even sisters can be coerced within a family, so I'll just say that altruistic surrogacy is an ethical minefield. I mean, what if your sister died giving birth or had severe complications?

Also, I became more adamant against surrogacy AFTER giving birth, for similar reasons why I'm very pro-choice on abortion: Women's bodies go through so much to give birth and we should not be breeders unless we do so enthusiastically for our own children. Also, the bond at birth is something no one can understand except a mother. Women shouldn't be asked to breed for other people. It's not right.

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KimberleyClark · 18/09/2022 06:09

NotBadConsidering · 18/09/2022 03:14

What checks and safeguarding strategies do you propose to make sure there is no coercion between family members?

For example, if a family member is going to donate a kidney, they have to undergo extensive psychological assessment to make sure they’re doing it freely and fully understanding of the consequences. Many families carry longstanding guilt and complex relationships meaning such decisions are tainted. And surrogacy results in another human being at the end of it being placed without choice into such circumstances. There are all sorts of stories about being guilted into different things for family members; “I can’t believe you won’t do this for your own sister!” sort of thing.

So how do we check for coercion or guilt? Because in my view it’s inevitably going to happen.

You make some good points. Coercion, guilting and emotional blackmail can happen within families.

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dujnf · 18/09/2022 06:22

funzeny · 18/09/2022 02:52

@GreenEggsAndBabycham million threads before but this is the first one I've seen and I'm completely shocked and changed about this now. Never realised how horrific and selfish people are to even consider it.

Also I realise people have complained on here that there are already ongoing threads, but you could say that about a lot of threads on here.

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dujnf · 18/09/2022 06:26

TheOtherWoman2 · 18/09/2022 00:12

My daughter is in her early 20s and due to illness in her teenage years, she has been told it’d be unsafe for her to carry her own child. I will completely support her when it comes to the point, that her and her husband use a surrogate. They have met a lot of different people and they absolutely plan on going down this route in the forthcoming years. From what I’ve heard all surrogacy agencies/past surrogate mothers have been open about the payment and consideration for safety of the surrogate, both of which are at an excellent standard

How much does it cost?

What if the baby has disability or some issue that means it will have to be terminated? Will the surrogate just have to get over that as part of her job? Will your daughter just cough up the money and go again?

Hmm, I just can't square the circle on this one.

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dujnf · 18/09/2022 06:27

Codswallop20 · 17/09/2022 23:52

Whoops!

My absolutely lovely and gorgeous gay friends have a child who was born via surrogate. He is a beautiful and happy, loved child. His parents are fantastic and almost certainly better than me, female baby maker by gender.

I know what they went through with the surrogacy and it was not easy at all, they went through hell and back for their child. It was dedication that I doubt many of us would have.

I guess gay couples having babies is a real area of growth for the surrogacy industry.

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dujnf · 18/09/2022 06:28

Sorry cut off - area of growth for the surrogacy industry.

They end up with a baby that is half biologically theirs and don't have to go through the hoops that adoption brings.

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Cheekymaw · 18/09/2022 06:29

I very much disagree with surrogacy in any form. Women are not baby factories and babies should not be made for sale. It is sexist and classist. I despise the celeb couples, gay or straight who obtain a child in this way. No regards whatsoever for the risks mentally and physically to the mother, or to the baby . It should be banned .

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dujnf · 18/09/2022 06:31

lljkk · 17/09/2022 23:39

I mildly supportive. Mostly I don't care. Why must you develop an opinion about this, OP?

Isn't it ok to wonder what your view is on something. Most people won't have an abortion so does that mean they shouldn't form a view on that either?

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MrsJamin · 18/09/2022 06:40

Surrogacy is wrong every time. It centres the needs of adults over the child. It's especially abhorrent in celebrities who either say it's too risky to their health or can't even be bothered to make time in their diaries for conceiving, pregnancy and labour. eg Joe Jonas and Prianka chopra. I don't see it any differently to prostitution and it's way more dangerous. The celebrities who already have a child and say that it's too risky to their health to have another child... but they're willing to risk the health of the mother who carries the child?! Just so out of order, it should be illegal.
To anyone who thinks a surrogate has nothing biological to do with the child, look up microchimerism. In pregnancy, cells from mother and baby pass through the placenta, the surrogate mother will forever have cells from the baby she carried, and the baby will have cells from the surrogate. They are forever connected.

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CuntAmongstThePigeons · 18/09/2022 06:41

Creating a baby for the sole purpose of traumatizing it is disgusting.

Read up about the problems created for the child by separating it from its mother.

Babies are not commodities.

Plus there's a million babies unwanted in orphanages, and the world already has too many people.

If you really want a baby, adopt.

Surrogacy is the epitome of selfishness, me, me, me, I want, I want, I want.

With no thought to the traumatized baby and woman.

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dujnf · 18/09/2022 06:48

MrsJamin · 18/09/2022 06:40

Surrogacy is wrong every time. It centres the needs of adults over the child. It's especially abhorrent in celebrities who either say it's too risky to their health or can't even be bothered to make time in their diaries for conceiving, pregnancy and labour. eg Joe Jonas and Prianka chopra. I don't see it any differently to prostitution and it's way more dangerous. The celebrities who already have a child and say that it's too risky to their health to have another child... but they're willing to risk the health of the mother who carries the child?! Just so out of order, it should be illegal.
To anyone who thinks a surrogate has nothing biological to do with the child, look up microchimerism. In pregnancy, cells from mother and baby pass through the placenta, the surrogate mother will forever have cells from the baby she carried, and the baby will have cells from the surrogate. They are forever connected.

If they did a dna test would the surrogate show as a percentage related?

I guess where a sister has been the surrogate they would show as sharing the same genes anyway / unless they tested a number of sisters and the surrogate was higher match that the others.

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Ylvamoon · 18/09/2022 06:49
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Menwithvenn · 18/09/2022 06:59

CuntAmongstThePigeons · 18/09/2022 06:41

Creating a baby for the sole purpose of traumatizing it is disgusting.

Read up about the problems created for the child by separating it from its mother.

Babies are not commodities.

Plus there's a million babies unwanted in orphanages, and the world already has too many people.

If you really want a baby, adopt.

Surrogacy is the epitome of selfishness, me, me, me, I want, I want, I want.

With no thought to the traumatized baby and woman.

Agreed. The Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier is an interesting read.

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Theprimeofmissmulroney · 18/09/2022 07:21

I don't think surrogacy is OK. I don't really agree with egg donation either. I know that's controversial. I just don't believe that someone has the right to have a child 'no matter what'. I can't imagine how the conversation would go with the child - 'I carried you but actually you're not genetically mine'. Similarly, there are too many issues in surrogacy. It's just fraught and ultimately will be confusing and upsetting for the child.

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MrsJamin · 18/09/2022 07:23

dujnf · 18/09/2022 06:48

If they did a dna test would the surrogate show as a percentage related?

I guess where a sister has been the surrogate they would show as sharing the same genes anyway / unless they tested a number of sisters and the surrogate was higher match that the others.

Cells from babies you have carried can be found anywhere in the mother's body, some appear to help to heal but some appear to help cancers grow. It's very interesting to read up on. Women who carried male babies had XY cells found in certain areas of their bodies even when they were very old. Blows your mind a bit... When they say your children are like your heart in the world, it's actually a little bit true as they have some of your actual cells. citation here

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OhILoveDoughnuts · 18/09/2022 07:26

jeaux90 · 17/09/2022 07:07

Surrogacy is wrong. Women and babies are not a commodity. Women are not "breeders" "birthing vessels" or any other woke asshole word which dehumanises us.

It's the same as prostitution, renting our wombs out, and like the sex trade it's very open to coercion/trafficking/exploitation of the poorest women.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/25/surrogacy-sweden-ban

If I were to be a surrogate for my sister, or my best friend. After many failed IVF attempts. It being their only option to have a child of their own. That would be wrong?

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Hotandbothereds · 18/09/2022 07:29

CuntAmongstThePigeons · 18/09/2022 06:41

Creating a baby for the sole purpose of traumatizing it is disgusting.

Read up about the problems created for the child by separating it from its mother.

Babies are not commodities.

Plus there's a million babies unwanted in orphanages, and the world already has too many people.

If you really want a baby, adopt.

Surrogacy is the epitome of selfishness, me, me, me, I want, I want, I want.

With no thought to the traumatized baby and woman.

Going by that theory shouldn’t everyone adopt as a first option rather than have their own child?

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Shoxfordian · 18/09/2022 07:31

The main issue for me is the power imbalance between surrogate and parents; if it’s a genuine free altruistic choice then I don’t have an issue with it especially when the child will be able to know the surrogate parent growing up if it’s a close friend or family member

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MrsJamin · 18/09/2022 07:32

@OhILoveDoughnuts What if that pregnancy resulted in long term medical issues for you, that meant you couldn't have a normal relationship of your own, you couldn't work, or how would your family member feel if you died during childbirth? And how could you be sure to feel like that other person was the mother, and not you? That baby would respond to you differently to anyone else and might cause resentment from your family member. You can't predict the likelihood of any of these outcomes just from your feelings or theirs.

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