How to spot the shite fathers early on?

[StellaStacey]

I'm newly single in my late 20s. I want to think about settling down and starting a family with someone.

I see so many of the same sort of posts on here about women having children with their partners and the father not being a parent at all or doing any household chores whatsoever. The man insisting he has a right to undisrupted sleep because he works a paid job and has zero appreciation to the hard work and exhaustion that goes into raising a child. I seriously at points consider staying childless because I don't think I can cope with this kind of setup and want to avoid it at all costs, not only because of how physically exhausting it must be but the mental torment of a partner completely disrespecting and think so little of you as the mother of their child. I know I would never get over the resentment. I read some of the posts on here and I want to scream at these men who are driving their partners to such breaking point for being completely and utterly useless. My god you are heros and extremely resilient if you have been in this situation.

As I jump onto the dating scene again I wanted to ask, are these useless twats easy to spot early on? Are there warning signs? If you ended up in this situation was it obvious looking back that it would be like that but you were love blind to the signs? What are the red flags? Did your DP completely change when a baby came along or did they always have these tendencies to avoid all responsibility?

A few things come to mind, I'm sure others will be along with more.

• How does he treat his mother?
• Has he ever had to live independently before?
• What is his current living environment like? Tidy? Chaotic?
• Does he seem to be financially secure? I don't mean mega rich, but things like an inability to budget would be a red flag for me
• Do you value the same things, have similar priorities in life?
• Does he treat you with respect? I don't mean words or grand gestures... but things like how he behaves when you are ill or when you have a disagreement

Good question, OP! I only know the classic advice, see how he treats his mother and other elderly people in his family. Is he generally hard working. Does he actually like children. Is he kind to animals.

But also, how is he in adversity. Hard to tell. You can hardly manufacture tough circumstances to test him out and see how he is after 3 months with no sleep and under stress. Maybe go tlong haul travelling with bad connections and see if he has a tantrum in the airport?

If he has made it into his 40s without ever having a long term serious relationship. Red flag - won’t be good at compromise.

He lives independently (possibly with flatmates) and pays his bills, manages any debt, which should be sensible debt (mortgage, student loan, etc) and not dodgy overspending. His place is clean and tidy. Because he cleans it himself.

He cooks a good variety of meals well and cooks regularly for you.

He does his own laundry and his clothes look reasonably weel-cared for.

He has a history of being a responsible adult who keeps his word.

Essentially, he is an adult who takes good care of himself.

He supports you and your goals. Not just by saying he does, but by making you tea if you're stressed or offering to pick up groceries. Practical help.

You share goals. You share a vision for family life.

Avoid golfers, cyclists and football season ticket-holders 😀

Seriously though, anyone who thinks they can't possibly miss their hobby for anything won't change when a baby arrives.

Another vote for a stressful journey or holiday together. It is very telling how people treat others when they are tired, hungry and wanting to get home.

How he talks about his colleagues, exes, and anyone more junior than him. Fine not to like people, not fine to disparage them.

Good question OP. I have to say that all the Dads in my circle of friends/family are all brilliant so what you see on MN may not be representative of reality…

I suspected that DH would be a good Dad because he was always great with kids, because his own Dad is wonderful, because he is a generally caring person and because he really, really wanted kids. And I was right.

Tell him about a friend who changed his name on marriage/took leave to stay at home with the baby/is a SAHP while his wife is the breadwinner and see how he reacts.

What happens when you get poorly, does he check out and leave you to it or is he capable of caring in a practical way?

Great question wish I'd done this! Definitely no bad temper as stress of child will just magnify that. Self sufficient, good with money - knows how to save/budget. Same long term values/plans. Also think by about what you want? Would would you want to work or be a sahm, does this man supporting working mothers and value the contribution of sahm. Make surecc C your discipline ideas are on same page. Also you need to fancy him, find him funny and consider him a friend.

My exh changed his surname on marriage (ti mine) and took 3 months paternity leave so I could go back to work at 6 months. He was still a useless feck.

Literally everything posted describes DD's waste of space dad. He was financially stable, a home owner, good at budgeting, kept on top of his housework, an amazing cook, really close with his mum and sister, and he was the one that actually really wanted kids (I did not, it took a lot of persuasion). It was like, as soon as I had given birth, his brain had fallen out and he was unable to adult by himself.

Avoid the ones who have a child already that they don’t see very often because the mother is ‘difficult’ or has ‘turned the child against them’.

Remember that you only get one side of the story on MN!

This also does he " own" his mistakes can he apologise ? Is he reflective ? Less important in the baby absolutely critical with teens.

No ”selfish” hobbies, eg. they take along time.

How they view other women, you know how first date red/green flag is how they treat waiters?
Same here, except about women.
Do they judge women who don’t want kids, or single women, or think women who don’t giggle and pander to all men are bitches.
This may sound crazy, but many men want women to just look pretty, giggle at their ”jokes” and cater to their lives.
So how they view women who don’t ”fall in line” is important.

Hiw they act and treat you when one of you or both of you are sick.

How they handle sex and attention.
If they are pushy / high drive, that’s can become a problem when pregnant/ baby is young.
And if they are kind of a man who is going to be jealous of the baby is going to be a problem.

I don’t think how they treat their mother is that simple.
Believed it not, but not all mothers are good and if someone (man or woman) doesn’t have a good relationship with their mom’s, doesn’t mean it’s because of the (adult)child.

Sometimes you can't know in advance, sadly. In general though I would say that from what I've seen on here and in RL, sometimes women are happy taking on the bulk of domestic chores before kids, which isn't felt as a huge deal when it's just the two of you to cook and clean up after, but add a child or two to the mix, plus still working and it's then blatantly unfair. So someone who pulls their weight before kids is what you are looking for. The number of times I've heard/read ' well they will do jobs but they don't see mess the way I do/I've got higher standards so easier if I just do it' - from the man's point if view if they've never done it why would they change once kids come along? And thats another thing - so many women seem to think that having a child will make a man change/step up. In my experience, they don't change. What they are is what they are. Its just that pre kids it doesn't seem like a big deal, but once they are here it actually is.

Sadly there aren't always red flags. There are plenty of men who would have passed these tests being outlined above but still turn out to be a selfish arse when their kids arrive.

For instance my daughter's father - he was amazing before she was born. I had to rest a lot due to complications and he did all the housework, shopping, looked after me, was generally a dream partner. He was financially secure, worldly, good to his mum etc etc etc.

Once she was born he turned - jealous, angry, selfish, wanting to be out all the time, refusing to do night shifts etc. in the end he tended towards threats of violence.

You can't replicate the situation of having our children in any way but to actually have them.

Good question OP and some wise answers.
If I had my time again:
Within a few weeks you should have met a few of his friends, a few months you should meet his family (several times/not just a quick hello and bundle you away) Huge red flag if you don't.
Definitely take a few holidays together before you even think of moving in together.
Is he racist/homophobic/mysogynistic? (and he will probably be hiding this initially) eventually things will leak out.
Is he kind to a animals? Watch him around children. He doesn't have to find them fascinating, but he does need good humour and tolerance.
Watch closely his attitude to money and remember that one day your finances may be joint.
Is he mean with money? It will only get worse.
Is he controlling in any way? Make negative comments about your appearance (or more likely that of your friends he disapproves of initially, he will be saying the same about you in the future..)
I could go on.. and on.. 😏

Are they mean/stingy with money? Do they "split the bill" down to the penny? Do they expect you to pay 50% even if you only earn 20% of what they earn? Do they expect you to pay all the children's expenses because you "had" the baby and that makes it yours.

Oh please. This post is melodramatic. If you have an ounce of common sense and emotional integrity and if you are open emotionally then you will have thought about most of these things already and you then choose your men carefully.

Go out with a normal man who is a good man who will pull his weight and has the same goals in life and will stick around in your marriage through thick and thin and and then you will be fine.

Some men don't show the warning signs obviously. and it comes as a shock to women. But most of my messages who really do have these kind of problems clearly show that they don't have the emotional intelligence and never really thought about these things before jumping into relationships.

if you've got an ounce of emotional intellect then a lot of these problems that you read on the relationship boards won't happen to you.

It’s all about consistency, to me.

1. Does he have a stable job, or does he seem to jump from job to job?
2. Does he have steady friends? What are they like? Watch out for the ‘lad’ types
3. Mums are a tricky one. They should have a respectful relationship with their mum but not be too in her pocket, eg talking every day or ‘my mum thinks…’ etc
4. How does he deal with your first disagreement? Swearing/ignoring, or calm discussion?
5. Dump him immediately if he asks for money, lives with his parents or has any kids from previous relationships that he doesn’t see. Ditto if he complains about paying CMS or calls his ex a ‘psycho’
6. Don’t get pregnant for at least a few years, preferably wait until after the wedding

Oh, I don’t think it guarantees anything if he answers in a good way. But if someone tells you on a second date that it’s emasculating to take theoretical paternity leave, that definitely tells you something.
Having said that, the men I know who changed their names and took leave are all exactly the kind of person OP is looking for.

Should a man dump a women who lives with her parents would love another?

If he doesn't do his share of the housework without being asked before children, you're doing most of ths nappy changing.

My ex was, on the whole, a good father until he had "a mid life crisis" affair, he completely changed overnight and was a nightmare to divorce and has been completely useless as a father ever since. You couldn't have predicted this, everyone has been shocked.

Up to him. I don’t think the signs of fecklessness work in reverse, but I don’t think it’s ever a great sign of independence to be honest.