How to spot the shite fathers early on?

[StellaStacey]

I'm newly single in my late 20s. I want to think about settling down and starting a family with someone.

I see so many of the same sort of posts on here about women having children with their partners and the father not being a parent at all or doing any household chores whatsoever. The man insisting he has a right to undisrupted sleep because he works a paid job and has zero appreciation to the hard work and exhaustion that goes into raising a child. I seriously at points consider staying childless because I don't think I can cope with this kind of setup and want to avoid it at all costs, not only because of how physically exhausting it must be but the mental torment of a partner completely disrespecting and think so little of you as the mother of their child. I know I would never get over the resentment. I read some of the posts on here and I want to scream at these men who are driving their partners to such breaking point for being completely and utterly useless. My god you are heros and extremely resilient if you have been in this situation.

As I jump onto the dating scene again I wanted to ask, are these useless twats easy to spot early on? Are there warning signs? If you ended up in this situation was it obvious looking back that it would be like that but you were love blind to the signs? What are the red flags? Did your DP completely change when a baby came along or did they always have these tendencies to avoid all responsibility?

Avoid men with ANY obsessive hobbies. It doesn't matter what it is, but if he would rather go to the football/gaming/cycle race every weekend than spend non-sexual time with you, he will continue this.

In fact, if you find yourself having sex without intimacy of any kind outside the bedroom, that is a pretty good sign. Good men are able to communicate and prioritise your comfort and pleasure.

I honestly don’t think you can tell. Seeing male friends let down their partners has surprised me time and again. My DH is an exceptional partner, and would have failed lots of the red flags mentioned up thread when we met.
I think the ‘does he like kids’ is especially deceptive actually. I know some men who everyone describes as ‘great dads’ because they like to play with kids, are fun etc. that’s not parenting. That’s babysitting.

Avoid men who are on bad terms with their mothers.
They harbour a lot of unresolved shit towards females.
That said, never could I ever have predicted what an absolutely useless father my ex would be. Never. He was a GP who specialised in paediatrics, delivered babies, was a professional safeguard lead in the NHS, and crucially, he wanted children! He was an absolutely abusive, horrible parent and husband who now sits in prison for that very abuse he inflicted on his own child. I couldn’t have predicted this at all, not for one hot minute, when we met. But you give birth and I don’t know what it is… a switch flips and all the creepy crawlies come out. I’ll never be in another relationship.

@namechange30455
What did you think is naieve about it?

@bodie1890
"Of course it verges on victim blaming to say that they 'should have thought it through more'. "

How is it victim blaming? Or if it is, with hindsight don't they wish they had the sense to stop abc think before jumping in with someone unsuitable.

Did they missed the red flags? With hindsight would they have done the same thing (obviously they still want to have the children - taking that part out of the equation ) would they still continue to have that relationship with that person? a lot of the time in hindsight most of them realised they ignored the red flags or chose not to see the red flags and wish that they had more insight.

I have a friend whose DH walked out on her after 25 years a couple of years ago, no OW he just literally fell out of love. They met at University had two lovely DD. No script he is still being a decent co parent. Most men do seem to line up another woman but so many women write they are not in love anymore on here and many say life’s too short and to leave and that’s what’s happened there. Very sad and my friend has had some sort of breakdown.

@bodie1890 This has happened to many women I know, they get to mid thirties and panic.

The most successful relationships I know are all people who were friends before dating. Met at work or through mutual friends and it developed over time.

This ^
Though it makes me realise I could have spotted the warning signs early on!

Usually shite fathers will be shite partners

But some women put their blinkers on and don't see the early stage red relationship based flags and carry on to breed with them

I don't for a second believe any of the women who post on here moaning about their husbands or partners not stepping up as parents when they say 'they were wonderful before the baby' I would bet my house if people anonymously surveyed their family and friends before they had a baby most, if not all, would say they'd predict he'd be a shit father.

A partner who gladly does their fair share in a relationship is a lot more likely to do the same with a child

Someone who is as invested in your career as you are so won't think you're a default parent

One who is open to discuss children, how it would work with time off, who offers to split the parental leave and does so

In hindsight mine..
Hated his mum
Hates his ex
Wouldn't have a joint bank account
Obsessed with the gym

Yeah the resentment build quickly.

Honestly, OP, you can take all the advice here and do your homework and I guess that will reduce your chances of a useless man. But I can tell you hand on heart that my ex had a tidy home, lived independently, was financially secure, well educated, driven, caring beyond all reason….but when it came down to it, and there was a newer model and he no longer had any use for me, he changed into the most dreadful, u pleasant, nasty and abusive an individual as you could ever not want to meet. By all means do your homework, weed out the obvious shite. But there are no guarantees that’s enough.

@ForfuckssakeEXHstopbeingatwat

Well first of all I did say that some people don't show their red flags straight away. If you read my post.

Secondly people do change. So A man who might not of done such a silly things when you first met him suddenly has a midlife crisis. this does happen.

But sadly they probably were lots of red flags and you just didn't notice. We are all human. We miss things. Choose to ignore things. At the start and all the way through. Clearly he did have the ability to be the type of person to cheat. All along. I would never cheat never it's not in my nature and I know that but he clearly wasn't of that ilk. I'm sorry you don't like that fact, but it's the truth.

A problem is, some things they don't let you know until you get up the duff. I remember being about 4 months pregnant and my ex announced his mother was an alcoholic and he wouldn't trust her alone with a pet rock. I'd met her, spent time with her, thought she was lovely. Turned out whenever I was due round a massive operation took place to keep her sober and pretend the family got on with each other. After I was pregnant that gradually faded. The massive rows then happened in front of me.

Also pay attention to the father son relationship, there can be a crazy amount of hidden baggage there.

I don't know if these things can be spotted, and I think it's cruel when the family work together to try and keep the gf around. If left to his own devices I reckon my ex would have been easy to spot. His home would have been a shit hole, he would have been out of a job, he wouldn't have been able to afford to go on dates etc. If your son is a dick let women see that and save everyone heartbreak. Don't wait until they're 8 months pregnant and then out of the blue tell the poor woman actually you think your son is a really bad person.

Pay attention to 'banter' even when he says 'oh that's just what Jim is like, I haven't the heart to tell him I don't like his sexist jokes'

Pay attention to relationships with sisters.

See how he reacts when you want to choose things, pay close attention. Is he enthusiastic about your choices, does he try to make that happen, or do your choices always seem to be unable to happen for one reason or another and you always end up doing what he'd suggested.

Also, might be controversial, if he has ever asked to borrow even a small amount of money while dating or told any single lie (no matter how small/white) it would be over immediately now. No benefit of the doubt for me anymore. I don't care if a tiny tornado appeared out of nowhere and stole only your wallet, I don't care how kind you thought you were being when you lied, you're not in my life anymore after that point. Because that gradually became big lies and lots of money, ever so slowly.

I think it goes without saying that if you're getting to be choosey about partners don't start dating men who already have children. It's an easy way to never have the hassle of being a step mum if you consider those men ineligible from the get go.

@WrongWayApricot

How long had they kept that a secret for!?

That's mad

When you're ill, tired or just under the weather, is he kind and patient or does he huff and puff and imply you're making it up?

I did a shopping list for my DD's father. I can honestly say I couldn't have got it more wrong if I tried. Needless to say he ticked all the boxes with bells on! He is a hideous human being and father. The mask really came off when I was pregnant which is quite common with abusers. Fast forward to my lovely DP who is the love of my life but not a box ticker. DP is the most wonderful father to all his kids and my damaged teens.

Poor DH then. Married him at 39, no LTR prior for him (very shy with women). Completely equal at chores and parenting.

I don't think you can always tell. But I will say that something that has blown my fucking mind since I started reading MN is the number of women lumbered with a shit dad and partner who admit "He's always been selfish". Why, and how, would you ever let someone you could honestly describe as "selfish" knock you up?!?

So, definitely, if you've ever before kids thought "he is kind of selfish", don't go there.

How does he talk about women generally? Big red flag is he’s charming to you and your friends but talks in a misogynistic way about other women, and that includes women who you might find genuinely objectionable.

You need to talk about family life beforehand. His expectations and yours, somewhere in the middle will be reality. The problem with a lot of family setups is square peg round hole syndrome.
Will the parents adjust their life choices, and friendships-careers-hobbies to adapt to the new circumstances? Far too many couples have either unrealistic expectations or set out on a path to personal and familial oblivion.

And “how would I feel if my son turned out just like my partner?” Is a good question.

Dh is an amazing dad.
Really good honourable person , female friends who adore him, was serious about wanting to be a father, excellent job L, super capable, annoyingly good at everything!

He finds his mother very annoying and likes cycling so not sure those are markers!

"But there are no guarantees that’s enough."

That is also true. there are no guarantees for any of us. Some of it is luck. but we can narrow the chances somewhat.

All the signs mentioned by pp are right, some are obvious, some harder to discern. However in my experience, even taking all those things into consideration, you just never know, and once you have sussed out the really bad ones, you just have to take a chance.

How willing is he to put himself out? Parenting well is about putting your own needs aside.......for at least 18 years. It's a great thread idea and a great question.

Things I used to reassure myself that he was going to be a good dad:

1. I like his dad and he loves his dad
2. beta type, maybe even a bit boring
3. v intelligent especially at maths so just assumed he would be a good earner
4. Reliable, loyal and brilliant in a crisis (this is the only one that has been really helpful in reality)

Things I wished I had asked:

1. Why don't you understand why people love pets? (An exceptional mathematician who doesn't really get people or pets... anyone spotting any red flags?!)
2. Do I love him or do I love mothering him?
3. Who does the motherload in his birth family?
4. Does his birth family seem happy?
5. Does he enjoy work?