How to spot the shite fathers early on?

[StellaStacey]

I'm newly single in my late 20s. I want to think about settling down and starting a family with someone.

I see so many of the same sort of posts on here about women having children with their partners and the father not being a parent at all or doing any household chores whatsoever. The man insisting he has a right to undisrupted sleep because he works a paid job and has zero appreciation to the hard work and exhaustion that goes into raising a child. I seriously at points consider staying childless because I don't think I can cope with this kind of setup and want to avoid it at all costs, not only because of how physically exhausting it must be but the mental torment of a partner completely disrespecting and think so little of you as the mother of their child. I know I would never get over the resentment. I read some of the posts on here and I want to scream at these men who are driving their partners to such breaking point for being completely and utterly useless. My god you are heros and extremely resilient if you have been in this situation.

As I jump onto the dating scene again I wanted to ask, are these useless twats easy to spot early on? Are there warning signs? If you ended up in this situation was it obvious looking back that it would be like that but you were love blind to the signs? What are the red flags? Did your DP completely change when a baby came along or did they always have these tendencies to avoid all responsibility?

I actually think it's possible to tell these things from quite early on - certainly before you commit to having a child.

I think a lot of people have children thinking it will change a relationship/ change a man, and then it often makes things worse. But they actually knew his basic personality to start with.

Look at how he is with friends'/ family's children - does he care, make an effort to interact with them? If so how? Does he talk to them or just playfight?

Does he initiate conversations with you about having children, or is it mostly one way?

How patient is he when little things go wrong in life? Does he get frustrated/ lose his temper?

Can he reflect on himself? Can he apologise if something goes wrong and change the next time?

I'd also look out for the state of his home, is it clean & tidy, is he basically together and coping with life as a single person, financially, practically, emotionally?

What do his friends say about him/ what kind of friends does he have? How 'laddish'/ mature are they?

All these things should give you some idea.

A lot of shit dads don’t reveal the fact until they are one.

In my case, we just lived together for years pre DC and my DH always:

1. Did his share around the house. 50% of all chores.
2. Was (generally) kind, considerate and not selfish - we both had our own interests but his needs didn't trump mine and we sometimes did things together.
3. His family were very nice - not at all overbearing but interested and supportive. He had an uncomplicated, loving relationship with them.
4. He was hugely hard working and had a massive amount of get up and go. Like he never wanted to sit in the house all day and do nothing.
5. Money was never an issue. Like when we were first together he had more money than I did and often paid for things so we could socialise. He never made a big deal about it or seemed to mind at all. When later we had joint finances he just wasnt ever weird about it.

I appreciate it might be difficult to find a person with all of these qualities, and I also appreciate that people sometimes pick men for other stuff. My DH isn't perfect, but he is fundamentally decent. I do also know that some men seem to change a lot post children but I think how selfish you think they are is a good test.

My exh ticked a lot of “good dad” boxes and acted like he was interested in friends/family’s dc but he was a terrible father.

Good signs I think are:
Patience, not being grumpy, deals well with stress, independence and if they have a pet they are solely responsible for who’s well cared for.

His relationships with his exes. "Psycho ex" is the biggest red flag I know of.

I think that's extremely naïve tbh.

I agree with @FishFingerSandwiches4Tea and @Oblomov22

If he's a lazy fuckwit before kids who doesn't tidy up after himself that will not magically change after them.

Spend a long time with your partner before hand. Don't rush into stages of a relationship. Get to know them properly first. I was with my DH for 11 years before we had kids. Put them in the most stressful situation imaginable and see how they react. Is there other kids in the family. How do they react with them? Do they look after and care for them. (My DH has always babysat his nieces and nephews). Look at what their parents are like because that is the relationship they have been taught to model. Talk to them about their parents relationship and what kind of parent they want to be. And if they won't talk about it, well that's a red flag too!

I also think that the most important thing any woman should do is not ignore the red flags. There are a lot of posts on there where people list off loads of what is wrong in their relationship. Just to say 'But I'm in my 30s and want a baby!'. Trust your own gut if a relationship isn't right and don't stay just for a child. Use a sperm donor instead.

I can see how people feel that most of the lists being given might help weed out the worst ones but for me they are just surface behaviours that can easily fall by the wayside.

Mother and father are two of most strongly stereotyped roles we have in society so for me the only thing that gives a good indication of a man's ability to father well is if they recognise that and genuinely believe in equality between the sexes. I feel the same of women too.

The second thing to consider is if they truly do want to parent. So many men I know were talked into children or just made to believe it was the inevitable next step in life. Rather then given a genuine choice. It's too big a thing to do when you didn't really want too.

Whag is the other side of the story for men who do not take responsibility for their children?!

I know women who jumped into relationships because they wanted children without thinking it through.

They were so desperate for a child (understandable) that almost any man would do and they weren't thinking rationally. I think this happens a lot.

Of course it verges on victim blaming to say that they 'should have thought it through more'. Many people have a very strong and primal instinct to reproduce.

It's also true that no tick-list exists that stops him being a good partner one day, then walking out the next. It's not like all the horror stories of feckless men are down to women failing in their due diligence.

The scary truth is that you can never 100% know or trust another person and choosing a good partner is also down to luck.

Watch out for the ‘lad’ types

This. If you meet his mates and they're making shit jokes about women, being "whipped", and top secret things that happened on stag dos, be careful.

@namechange30455
Agree, extremely naive.

You see it on here all of the time.

'My DH is the biggest fuckwit known to mankind and couldn't even wipe his own arse himself he is so lazy. But I am in my mid 30s and desperate for a baby. What do I do?'

Does he have patience?
Does he demonstrate altruism?
How good is he with sleep deprivation?
Can he tolerate mundane, repetitive tasks?
How much alone time does he need?

These are questions for women contemplating parenthood as well as men.

So personally I think it's going to be a bit more difficult if you plan to have kids fairly quickly after meeting (2-3years) as you may not get to see the real, outside of honeymoon phase, them.

But... I would look for a man who is;

• naturally higher energy
• doesn't think their priorities come above everything else. So no lager louts who have to be in the pub every Saturday. No football fanatics who never see an end to their football playing. No gym obsessives who have to be there every evening.
• someone who is level headed and humble.
• someone who will get along with your family and encourage meet ups/family support
• someone who can care. So if you're ill, they empathise and try to help rather than expect you to just get up and carry on.

I think the humbleness is really important generally, and of the partners I know where the power dynamics/role expectations are really different, they tend to be people who have very high expectations of things and cant accept the slower pace of life.

Also, set your boundaries immediately. No sexist jokes. Both doing equal chores. No mummy's boys. No partner who has multiple crazy ex's.

Lots of men out there are great family men, you just don't hear about them as much. Set your standards high and see how you get on!

I'm reading and appreciate all your responses. Thank you!

@Oblomov22 wow. Ok then. I guess I must be pretty stupid then. My ex was a great partner and father, genuinely. Not selfish, laid back, fully domesticated. Then ow came along and bam. Suddenly it was all shit and has been ever since. There's a thread running in Divorce at the moment, usual story, the Script. There are 10 pages of testimony from women in relationships of a decade or more who's partners literally did a 180 in midlife. Yes there are some obvious signs to look for but please don't tell me and the thousands of others who had the rig pulled from under them that we lack emotional intelligence and we should have known better.

Totally agree that if you can wait, do (30 is not too old to have a baby!)

DH and I were together 14 years before DS was born. I think I had a good measure of him (and he of me) by about 5 years.

A lot of relationships end at around 3 years. My first one did.

I’m not sure you can look at this in isolation, to be honest. The whole wider system/culture is so fucked — especially around the pay gap, women’s health, childcare, maternity and paternity leave and pay — it’s surprisingly easy for decent people to turn into bad parents through external forces.

One who didn't have an authoritarian dad himself. It's v v hard to change the impact of that. In lots of ways, dh is a good partner. He was good with babies and more patient than me. But not so good when they became people- especially ds. Expected him to be more grown up than he was at any given age. Can't empathise with teens. All the conflict in our house comes from dh not getting how kids work and resenting being told how to understand them.

My DH failed many of the tests mentioned but is a very hands on dad. He lived at home with parents and his mum did most of the domestic stuff. But he was clearly a very caring and family orientated person. I had a bout of depression fairly early on in our relationship and he was endlessly patient and caring.

I don’t think you can necessarily tell up front but I would say if you think the relationship might be a serious one talk talk talk. What do they think about equality in a relationship, caring for children, splitting finances? You sometimes see threads here where a woman is despairing that they are not on the same page as their partner about getting married, having children or sharing finances and so often it seems they have never actually talked to each other about fundamental things before they blew up into an issue.

To suggest that living at home is a guaranteed sign of fecklessness is just plain idiotic.

We knew each other for 13 years before having kids, and I can honestly saw there were no obvious signs that he’d be an utterly shit and selfish father.

Upon reflection, I see he wasn’t parented very well as a child. He was very chaotic also (but held down a very successful career). It’s like a switch went off in his being when he had to parent. He couldn’t do it and never developed an instinct for it. Before that, he had all the characteristics of a good and responsible man. Very interesting to read responses describing similar.

Unless obvious, you won’t know until you have kids. I see some incredibly dedicated and amazing fathers, and feel a pang of sadness for my DS. They do exist!

A bloke that is obsessed with his phone.Disagree with the sport as long as only a couple of hours a week.Like to think I wasn't a shit Dad ,but I had mother in law ,mother that helped out early on.