How to spot the shite fathers early on?

[StellaStacey]

I'm newly single in my late 20s. I want to think about settling down and starting a family with someone.

I see so many of the same sort of posts on here about women having children with their partners and the father not being a parent at all or doing any household chores whatsoever. The man insisting he has a right to undisrupted sleep because he works a paid job and has zero appreciation to the hard work and exhaustion that goes into raising a child. I seriously at points consider staying childless because I don't think I can cope with this kind of setup and want to avoid it at all costs, not only because of how physically exhausting it must be but the mental torment of a partner completely disrespecting and think so little of you as the mother of their child. I know I would never get over the resentment. I read some of the posts on here and I want to scream at these men who are driving their partners to such breaking point for being completely and utterly useless. My god you are heros and extremely resilient if you have been in this situation.

As I jump onto the dating scene again I wanted to ask, are these useless twats easy to spot early on? Are there warning signs? If you ended up in this situation was it obvious looking back that it would be like that but you were love blind to the signs? What are the red flags? Did your DP completely change when a baby came along or did they always have these tendencies to avoid all responsibility?

Great post and facinating read as a male..

Would love to contribute but can’t help but think this is one of those posts where us men should just shut up and listen to women about how men can be.

I can only advise ofy own OHs shortcomings and the red flags I ignored , he however is great in a lot of ways so I think it is most important to find what's important to you which I thunk you have given consideration to.
My OH is not kind to animals and had threatened to put poison out to stop neighbours pet fowling in his garden.i remember he also stood up 1 day and look out the window with a scolding look at the neighbours son who was kicking a ball against a wall ( while his parents partied inside like they regularly did) and my OHs reaction was annoyance at the sound of the ball and mumbles under his breath that he would burst the ball. I had a massive red flag moment as I expressed concern for the poor boy who seemed neglected by his party head parents. I find now he has very high needs for personal space, a short fuse and low patience. And since having kids together I've since found out his mother was a cruel neglectful woman who refused to let his dad see him. We manage it all quiet well but it is a lot of work and I often feel I have one adult sized toddler.

Definitely don’t have children with someone until you have been together for a good 4-5 years. You need this period to get to know how that person behaves in times of adversity. 1-3 years just isn’t sufficient to properly ‘know’ someone.

I’d wager that a good majority of posters with feckless husbands / fathers who were ‘wonderful’ pre birth didn’t give themselves enough time getting to know the real ‘him’ before getting pregnant.

Unpopular possibly, but what is their father like with them (if you can find out)? No shade to anybody without a father present, it doesn't mean they'll be bad as I believe in cycle breaking but my DH's dad is a dedicated, amazing, giving father and my DH is too. Some of my nieces and nephews have dads who have dads either not present, no capacity to be selfless (through no fault if their own) and they have struggled with fatherhood, some following same pattern.

The first of those things simply demonstrates a tiresome contempt for tradition and convention, and is in a different category to the other two circumstances quoted.

It's not clear cut at all, my cousin is a total alpha male, handsome, fast cars, throws huge parties, very into hobbies with the lads. He also had the worst possible role model for a father. Yet he's been happily married for 28years and he's been an amazing father of 5.

Yes I agree with this,but let's just leave the amazing bit out in my case.Terrible father who fcuked me up for a very long time,took years to get over the influence he had on me.
We married after only a year both on the rebound. Bringing up kids with ships in the night parents was a real struggle with me working days with reduced hours to pick up the kids three days a week and DW working evenings getting home at eleven absolutely shattered it was very hard but as before we had mothers that helped out. I still played my sport and took my middle son to football on a Saturday aswell and my wife saw her friends.
Hats off to the parents that work full time ,say nine till six,back to kids with school runs and clubs that have to be done.I had the odd melt down I freely admit but we got through it all and look forward to a house of our own and holidays without the kids aswell as with them on the odd occasion of course.

So I would definitely fit into your description, I do everything regarding the kids, my husband works abroad and helps clean when he is home at weekends, has barely woken up at night with kids (if they wake up a lot he sleeps in the other room and I can hear him snoring and the next day he says he still could hear the noise and was awake. But he does let me sleep in the mornings after a hard night (at weekends). He does play with the kids and the kids love him.

I knew he was going to be this kind of a dad from the beginning, he always said he was only having kids because it was important for me and he didn’t want to loose me. I have always wanted to be a mum and I love it. I can do with very little sleep as long as I occasionally get a lay in, whereas he suffers from sleep apnoea and really can’t function if he doesn’t sleep. He earns in the top 10% and we get along so well, we don’t have arguments. So yes I do basically all the housework, anything and everything to do with kids and I work (because I love my work), but I knew it was going to be this way with him as he was saying it.

So I would say the warning signs for me was he said it straight out, but if that’s the case, just make sure he earns enough then to hire a cleaner if neither one of you want to do the housework. You can even hire a night nanny if you don’t want to do the nights.

Sometimes is not easy to see the signs . My sons father turned into the biggest nightmare but I didn’t see it at the beginning. He’s s bit like a cat and all his nine lives got used up very fast. You can only give someone so many chances .

Relationship with mother. His parents relationship- and his views on it. Does he want a similar relationship? If so, why ? If not, why?

How does he talk about his ex. Massively important. If he has close friends, what attitude do they have to women? This can often be seen in a group, with “rugby lads” etc. He may not be the same as his friends, but interesting to look at his choices and to see his views on how his friends behave towards/how they talk about women.

if he wants children, why? What did he like about his own childhood? What approach to discipline would he take?

If he says things like “I was smacked and it never did me any harm” then ditch him straightaway, unless you want to parent with an angry man who will think it is okay to shout at and hit your children.

How does he treat animals? Early on, with my first husband, he spotted a big moth on his bedroom wall one evening. He killed it. Just instantly squashed it dead with his hand. I was so shocked (I would have removed it and put it outside, had I been bothered by it being there). He brushed the incident away, said it was an instant reaction. It seemed out of character. I should have ended it then.

To add, does he value your free time away from him as well as with him.

By this I mean does he care about the fact you want to do other things, and not, he wants to do other things away from you so he's happy not to spend time with you.

Too many dad's go out cycling or golfing or whatever on the weekend cos they have a Big Man Job, and don't care that they leave their wife with all the childcare responsibilities.

You can't have a guarantee with these things but if you look carefully and try to be objective you might find some clues. My ex said he wanted to have children but I knew it wasn't going to be with me because he had no patience, he had hobbies he'd be unlikely to reduce, his flat was gross and full of toot and he had a tendency to ask annoying questions, imagine that along with an inquisitive toddler!

After we broke up I met my partner who.is kind, patient, had lived on his own for a while and his house was clean and just generally felt like he was meant to be a dad. It's early days as our baby is only 7 weeks but he and I are working well as a team which is what you need to be with a baby.

First and foremost - does he even WANT kids? Men usually give clues early on that they don't.

Same with my DH, who I met when he was 37. He’s now a great dad to our 2 adopted DDs of 13 and 10 and a loving partner to me. It’s definitely 50:50, in fact he’s done more than me the last couple of years because I’ve had Long Covid.

He did pass other tests mentioned on this thread, though, he’d been independent for many years, was good with money, honest to a fault and kind to his mum.

Or what are the reasons why they want kids? My ex wanted to be able to leave his assets to someone, erm just bequeath them to a donkey sanctuary or something, that's not a reason to bring a human into the world!

My DH waved a few of these red flags in the early days - mummy still did his washing for example (he’s lucky I was already in love with them when I found that out to be fair). Hadn’t had much of a serious relationship before (one relatively long term one but was long distance and didn’t actually see much of each other). Did not cope at all well with a stressful time when we first moved in together and I needed care/ support - that one nearly broke us up and all I can say is that he was going through something pretty major himself, he did realise what a twat he had been and we both learned an awful lot.

I’m not sure what made me overlook those things, other than I’m far from perfect and probably had a fair bit of scarlet bunting myself when we first met. And we always managed to talk about it, communicate and do better next time.

He’s a properly brilliant dad. Was amazing through fertility struggles, pregnancy during Covid, traumatic birth and long hospital stay, PND and has always been hands on, does his share and has a brilliant and close bond with DD. Still doesn’t do much washing but he does do plenty of other stuff so it works out equal!

Me and my husband have two young kids and run along ok, albeit with a few issues. Looking at us and our circle of friends, reading stories I think these were important things that I spotted early on with DH.

1. has a stable job and not always changing jobs.
2. good with kids and we have the same life goals.
3. a few long standing friends who are not ‘laddish’
4. no history of lots of short relationships, not a player.
5. clean and tidy with good personal hygiene, good at cooking and doing jobs around the house.
6. bascially kind and caring.

a few things not so good (but we have worked on)

1. what was his home life like? My DH came from a background where his Mum did everything, all the cooking, kids, cleaning and I (think?) she liked it this way. Due to this upbringing we did have some issues with him expecting me to be default child carer, but we have managed to have conversations and think he gets this isn’t acceptable so these cycles can be broken. Also his dad doesn’t express emotions so have the same issue with DH being quite closed sometimes.
2. relationship with mum is a tricky one - he will do stuff for her and is a good son but isn’t always proactive about contacting her - however not always a reflection on the bloke as his mum can be difficult and makes clear his younger sister is the ‘favourite’. Also she doesn’t contact him often.

Also we were together 10 years before kids, been through getting a dog, house move, big trips abroad so knew each others faults (appreciate this isn’t always possible if your older)

My husband is a golf pro, will never be sorry I married him, best man (other than my father and grandfather who are on par) I have ever had in my life!

My advice;
is his moral compass set at the same position as yours?
Do you share the same views on money, children, life?
Is he communicative and open?
Does he treat you well (support your goals and dreams and put you first when you need him?)
Can he cook and clean?
What relationship does he have with his mother (not too clingy, not too distant)?

If he is generally OK but makes disparaging comments about women or you while in the company of friends.

If he talks a lot about his own childhood and his experiences as an adult (eg his job, his colleagues, etc) but seems to tune out when you do the same and never remembers any of the things you have told him.

If he is fairly even tempered most of the time but when anything untoward happens, becomes bad tempered and blames you.

If he had a strange or disrupted family background where he has been bullied or overlooked. It sounds mean not to be supportive of someone who has experienced this, but, unless you are very resilient, you may find his inexplicably changing moods leave you constantly on edge and mentally exhausted.

This thread is so interesting 😂
in my experience. DD1s dad was always immaculately dressed .. owned a business and a house but was a total player and l later found out he cheated on me countless times. When I found out I was pregnant - he tried to force me into abortion - I was 19 weeks!!
needless to say we split up and he left me with an expanding belly - I had no friends ( he’d made sure of that over the years we had been together - total control freak)
Wasn’t there at the birth (my mum was -and I’m glad she was!) he visited me after with 24 red roses - stayed 30 minutes at most - reeked of aftershave and told me he was off to “wet the babies head”
once she was born he was back on the scene .. lasted until she was about 5 .. constantly letting her down, leaving me to deal with her crying her eyes out 🙄

then I met my current man…totally out of the blue.. he’s amazing 🤩. He took to DD1 immediately and she did to him! He was a total scruff when I met him.. he would keep his suit jacket on to disguise the fact he couldn’t be arsed to iron his shirt … we used to live 3 hours away from each other and I’d go and clean his place when I got there on a Friday evening 🙈he had to be prompted to shave .. and still does 🙄 he moved up here in 2006 and we’ve got two extras DS who’s 15 and DD2 is 14
he plays football and golf and watches on tv 😩 but works so hard and provides for us
Btw .. DD1 is 23 and doesn’t want anything to do with her sperm doner,.. that’s her own decision

I guess what I’m saying is that you can’t pre-empt where your life will lead you - when you know, you will know!

good luck Xx

Good answer. Also doesn't drink to excess too often or gamble. Big red flags.

I’d ask him if he’d be happy to be a stay at home dad or work part time while I worked full time, if that’s ever how the finances worked out best. The answer will be revealing. Anyone who laughs out loud at the ridiculousness of you earning more money even though you’re a mum needs binning.

There are a lot of shit dads who are happy not to earn while their wives earn. It doesnt mean theyll actually look after the children or do any housework.

My ex was a great dad to our first 3 children for 13yrs. Did his fair share of nappy changes, night feeds etc... was fully involved with his children. Then we had our 4th (planned) child and I don't know what happened. He completely lost interest in spending time with any of his children. Barely gave the 4th child the time of day.

Maybe he had a midlife crisis? I don't know, I just know he totally checked out of family life. Which is why he's now an ex.

There's some good advice on here OP but there are no guarantees. Sometimes people change.

And i have to say there's some very misogynistic comments on this thread from posters basically saying the mothers should have known and its their fault for picking crap dads. God forbid we hold men accountable for their own actions 🙄