Argument situation with husband

[IHateArguments]

I'm so ashamed of being upset about this that I've made a new u/n!

Lately my husband has been quite irritable and short fused. Flying off the handle about quite minor things, shouting and just generally losing his temper and saying quite mean things. Only with me (never with the kids) or about things or people.

I'm anti-confrontational to epic and annoying levels. I don't mind non-emotive confrontation, but I hate people being angry and upset. So I've found myself avoiding telling him things which I know will set him off.

I had a change of work plans for today due to the funeral bank holiday and I knew when I found out (Friday) that we'd have to rearrange childcare plans, because I'd be later home than I'd expected. And I caught myself that I was actually afraid to tell him, because I knew he'd fly off the handle.

I did tell him, but not as soon as I should have (Saturday afternoon). He completely flew off the handle and shouted at me for about an hour, swearing at me, saying stuff like he can't rely on me to sort out anything, I don't give a shit about anyone, I'm only interested in getting on at work.

I felt really - if I say not safe, I mean emotionally not safe in the situation, not that I actually felt threatened. Later I called a friend and had a bit of a cry, because some of the things he said hurt a bit. He obviously realised this, because he got angry with me over that.

Later he said sorry (but it was my fault) and he didn't mean those things, he just lost his temper. I still don't think it's okay and I wouldn't just say "yes, it's all fine", so he's now angry because I obviously don't give a damn about making things right.

It's not a LTB situation, or anything like that! But I can't just forget it and I don't know what to do. Maybe I am being unreasonable - holding a grudge and I should just drop it. But I don't like someone shouting and swearing in my face and saying unkind things, only to say "I didn't mean it" later. If you don't mean it, don't say it!

BTW, the childcare issue was solved. My youngest had a playdate and school agreed that the others could stay at after school club till 6.30.

It’s abuse, he’s gaslighting you. It is definitely a LTB situation. Sorry you’re going through this OP

good morning @IHateArguments sorry you’ve had more trouble from him, I know how awful it is but somehow you will cope and no one will think badly of you if you’ve needed some medication to help you - they’re just a tool to help get you through.

through the fog that I know your head will be in, just go through your daily routines as best you can, so long as the kids are fed and clean-ish, that’ll do.

then when you have a moment to yourself start discretely gathering the things you need and phone the doc, women’s aid and the police.

we’re all here for you, you can do this xx

Nobody should have to live like this op. It’s not love. It’s not like, its not even he tolerates you because he clearly doesn’t even tolerate you. Sending you strength for taking the break you’ve planned.

Have you told him about going away?

You poor love - sounds very difficult, I think space will be good, you sound terrorised

It is a LTB.
Mine was the same. I think it started with PND, I desperately tried to get him help and support but he wouldn't do anything to help me. I was putting my own mental health and physical health under stress to prioritise his. In the end I kind of just gave up on him tbh.

You can't fix someone that doesn't think they're broken. He fully thinks it's my fault. He'll stand there screaming and throwing things, he's smashed my stuff up with a hammer. And he'll say I'm the psycho.

It only gets worse. You keep staying so they think it's OK and they do it more, and better every time. I don't tell him anything because I'm scared of his reaction. I'm scared when he starts a conversation because half the time he's just setting me up for an attack he's planned. I hide all my emotion best I can to not trigger him. I delete messages from my mum if I think he'll be angry.
I'm finally moving out in a few weeks. It's going to be hell. I'm scared to tell him.

You can't fix someone that doesn't think they're broken. He fully thinks it's my fault. He'll stand there screaming and throwing things, he's smashed my stuff up with a hammer. And he'll say I'm the psycho.

Yes, this sounds familiar. With my father, it was only the women in the family who were crazy....my brother was his favourite but he was still a "fucking piece of shit" and a "fucking arsehole" when he wouldn't take Dad's crap. He just wasn't a "fucking crazy" one as well and he was never told to go to an institution for mentally unwell people (although he was told to do plenty of other things, like the rest of us). And half an hour later, when Dad felt better having finished using us all as his mental (and later physical) punchbags, we were all in the wrong for still being angry or upset. We should have known he didn't mean it and was just angry?

It damages people for life, OP. It often doesn't show immediately in children because they take what they're shown is normal as normal, but it comes out. I remember being very surprised when I got into trouble at school for reducing another child to tears by calling her something that my father often called us. Didn't she know everyone calls each other things like that? Why didn't everyone just forget about it and understand I was just angry?

I was about eight years old and I worked it out after that, so a grown arse man has no excuse.

Yes this is 100% true. You're in an abusive situation OP, it's no way to love, and it'll also be horrible and damaging for the kids to constantly witness.

The fact you're repeatedly calling yourself pathetic and annoying as hell etc etc for having normal reactions to abuse just SHOWS what he's doing to you.

You aren't pathetic. You aren't annoying as hell. It's not a natural situation to be in. You are being conditioned into thinking those things about yourself because it makes it easier for him to carry on. Before you know it you'll be apologising for ridiculous things and genuinely questioning whether it is your fault or not.

You sound exactly like me before I managed to leave. It took me a long time to repair my self esteem afterwards and realise that I wasn't stupid or annoying or useless like I'd been told or made to feel every day by him.

Don't underestimate what emotional abuse like that can do. It can turn you into a shell of who you were it really can.

Don't let him do that to you. It's natural to feel scared and it's normal to feel panicky about a potentially big life change. But I promise one day when you're looking back and you're living a life where you're not repeatedly made to feel like utter shit you'll look back and thank your earlier self for getting through this.

You aren't pathetic OP. You're doing so well. Is there any way you can leave before Friday? Like, today? Could you stay with a friend for a couple of nights before your airbnb is ready, or could your airbnb be available sooner? You sound like you're at breaking point, and he is seeing you so vulnerable and thinking it's a good time to give you more and more hell. I don't think anti-depressants are going to do anything for you at the moment - you won't start feeling better until you're away from him. Could you take some time off work today (tell your manager what's going on), pack some bits, pick up kids from school and take them straight to friend's place or hotel? You need some peace asap.

I didn't go to work today, I was trying to get myself together and I had a huge panic attack (I think it was a panic attack, anyway). My chest got tight and my heart was banging - I got really dizzy and felt like I was going to faint. And after that I felt really shaken, so I called and spoke to my manager and I'm taking the day off. She said I can take tomorrow if I need. I haven't said loads about what's happening, but I've explained a bit.

I'm also having an upset stomach and I often have this in stressful times (I guess it's some kind of mild IBS, but I've never really bothered to speak to anyone about it) but it's way worse than it has ever been! I feel like I need to be close to a toilet all the time (sorry too much info) and it's really not very convenient, in the circumstances.

I made a phone appointment with the GP for later to ask about maybe anti-anxiety meds PRN, like propranolol or sth. Just to take the edge off the physical anxiety. But I don't want to have to explain about any of this...

I'm going to try to hang on till Friday and at least being home today gives me a bit of a chance to get on top of things!

Thanks for all the replies and support x

My friend (who's actually a he, but very definitely gay, in a long-term relationship and no cause for jealousy!!) is going to help on Friday. I'm just trying to think of how to present it to the kids as something necessary/adventure/etc not mind-blowingly weird and scary.

Your friend sounds great, glad you’ve got some real life support.

re what to say to the kids, I’d be cautiously honest without too many details - “sometimes when you’re a grown-up you need time to yourself to think about things, so I’ve got us a lovely holiday house for a couple of weeks so that me and daddy have some time to ourselves…I’ll be staying in the holiday house as well and you’ll still be going to school and everything else will be the same we’ll just be staying at X for a bit…and it’s near x and has x so it’ll be a lot of fun.”

no need for them to know any more than that for now…

The best piece of advice I had when it happened to me was that kids take their cue on how to react from you, so if you’re screeching and histrionic they’ll think that’s appropriate but if you appear calm and matter-of-fact about it they’ll see there is no cause for alarm. It’s not easy pasting on a game face for the kids but it’s definitely best if you can manage it - you can admit you’re sad etc later on, but for now act like it’s no big deal.

Just tell your kids that you are going to stay in a holiday house for two weeks . That they will still have to go to school as usual but not childcare as you will be off work so you can do fun things together.

But dad will not be coming as you and he need some space from each other.

You need a plan for how you can pack you own and the children clothes/ toys and get them out the house before your H finds out that you are leaving.

Ideally you want a team of people who can do this with you on Friday morning when your kids are at school. Presumably you can also take quite a few things today and tomorrow and leave then at someone else’s house.

Most kids have a lot of clothes and shoes and very few dads would even know which item belongs to which child.

If the kids notice something is missing, just say “ Oh it will just be in the wash / Ive been sorting out your summer clothes and putting them away for next year “.

If you H notices anything, say you’ve been clearing out the kids old clothes / toys and taking them to the charity shop / looking out things for your sister .

“ You are right, they have too many toys “
” You are always saying they need to keep their bedrooms tidier “.

Whatever.

Being scared to tell your partner something because you know he's going to be verbally abusive is actually, most def a LTB situation

What's your housing situation OP? Just wondering if you decide to make it a long term break, will you be able to move back into the house and him move out? Still, take everything that's essential.

I would advise that you consider telling the Gp. If at any time things get very messy it's good to have it in writing that there have been issues to do with his behaviour toward you. You dont have to go overboard if you dont want to, but it might be better to keep the Gp informed re advice and treatment too. Just something to consider.

I think you should mention why to your GP, it will be good to have a paper trail. You also need to tell WA everything that you have mentioned here, as his abuse if so awful.

When you leave for those two week, you may also want to inform the school. I say this, as if your DC talk about it with a member of staff they may have questions?

Please take tomorrow off as well, and use the time that you are alone to get a plan in place, hide passports etc.

Absolutely tell your GP the truth.

You are working against your own health and best interests in not giving your doctor the truth.

Likewise the school.

Tell the truth.
Allow yourself to be supported.

Wish you strength at this very difficult time.

I just feel bad calling it abuse, like it's disrespectful towards actual abuse survivors. I feel that this is a situation of two people who have issues and desperately need space. Or I desperately need space anyway!

The kids are alright and I'm trying hard to be very matter of fact for them so that I can continue to be very matter of fact on Friday! He's been really snappy this evening, I feel like he might go off about anything.

I can't eat - as in, I really can't. And then I'm wondering why I'm tired and feeling rubbish! So I should eat because I can't risk collapsing in a heap, but I just can't!

I did try calling WA today, but I flaked out. I just can't bring myself to say the word abuse.

I just feel bad calling it abuse, like it's disrespectful towards actual abuse survivors.

You are an actual abuse survivor. Abusers are people, not pantomime villains. They're not 100% awful all the time but how much shit in a cup of tea makes it OK to drink?

What would you say if your children were being regularly screamed and sworn at for ages over the slightest thing until they had physical illness symptoms?

If you can't use the word abuse, then perhaps when you call Women's Aid, say you're not happy about how he treats you. I hope the information I am posting below is helpful to you. I understand it's hard to think of yourself as being abused but have a think, this man does not behave like this with other people so he is able to control himself. In a healthy relationship people should be able to discuss issues, they should not be walking on eggshells because they are terrified of what the other person's reaction is going to be. This is a dreadful environment for children to grow up in as they think this is normal. When they grow up they won't have proper boundaries in place because of this.

If you do feel physically in fear of this man at any point, do not be embarrassed to call the police.

From the WA website www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/

We define domestic abuse as an incident or pattern of incidents of controlling, coercive, threatening, degrading and violent behaviour, including sexual violence, in the majority of cases by a partner or ex-partner, but also by a family member or carer. It is very common. In the vast majority of cases it is experienced by women and is perpetrated by men.

Domestic abuse can include, but is not limited to, the following:
Coercive control (a pattern of intimidation, degradation, isolation and control with the use or threat of physical or sexual violence)
Psychological and/or emotional abuse [2].
Physical or sexual abuse.
Financial or economic abuse.
Harassment and stalking.
Online or digital abuse.

The WA site has a page about myths around domestic abuse which includes the following:

Myth #3: Domestic abuse always involves physical violence.
Reality: Domestic abuse does not always include physical violence. Women’s Aid defines domestic abuse as an incident or pattern of incidents of controlling, coercive, threatening, degrading and violent behaviour, including sexual violence, by a partner or ex-partner. These incidents can include coercive control; psychological and/or emotional abuse; physical abuse; sexual abuse; financial abuse; harassment; stalking; and/or online or digital abuse.

Myth #4: He can be a good father even if he abuses his partner – the parents’ relationship doesn’t have to affect the children.
Reality: An estimated 90% of children whose mothers are abused witness the abuse. The effects are traumatic and long-lasting. When a child witnesses domestic abuse, this is child abuse. Between 40% and 70% of these children are also direct victims of the abuse which is happening at home.

Myth #5: She provoked him.
Reality: This myth is widespread and deep-rooted. It is often based on the belief that the man is the head of the family, and that his role is to punish his partner or children if they act in a way he doesn’t approve of.
The myth is dangerous because any reference to ‘provocation’ means that we are blaming the woman and relieving the abuser of responsibility for his actions.
Abuse or violence of any kind is never the victim’s fault. Responsibility always lies with the perpetrator, and with him alone.

I don't know, maybe normal people wouldn't react like this! Maybe I'm just really anxious. I'm really doubting myself now, I feel like I'm just overreacting and being weird and crazy.

If you think you’re overreacting, imagine yourself going to someone in your office and communicating with them the way your partner communicates with you. Would it seem respectful?