Argument situation with husband

[IHateArguments]

I'm so ashamed of being upset about this that I've made a new u/n!

Lately my husband has been quite irritable and short fused. Flying off the handle about quite minor things, shouting and just generally losing his temper and saying quite mean things. Only with me (never with the kids) or about things or people.

I'm anti-confrontational to epic and annoying levels. I don't mind non-emotive confrontation, but I hate people being angry and upset. So I've found myself avoiding telling him things which I know will set him off.

I had a change of work plans for today due to the funeral bank holiday and I knew when I found out (Friday) that we'd have to rearrange childcare plans, because I'd be later home than I'd expected. And I caught myself that I was actually afraid to tell him, because I knew he'd fly off the handle.

I did tell him, but not as soon as I should have (Saturday afternoon). He completely flew off the handle and shouted at me for about an hour, swearing at me, saying stuff like he can't rely on me to sort out anything, I don't give a shit about anyone, I'm only interested in getting on at work.

I felt really - if I say not safe, I mean emotionally not safe in the situation, not that I actually felt threatened. Later I called a friend and had a bit of a cry, because some of the things he said hurt a bit. He obviously realised this, because he got angry with me over that.

Later he said sorry (but it was my fault) and he didn't mean those things, he just lost his temper. I still don't think it's okay and I wouldn't just say "yes, it's all fine", so he's now angry because I obviously don't give a damn about making things right.

It's not a LTB situation, or anything like that! But I can't just forget it and I don't know what to do. Maybe I am being unreasonable - holding a grudge and I should just drop it. But I don't like someone shouting and swearing in my face and saying unkind things, only to say "I didn't mean it" later. If you don't mean it, don't say it!

BTW, the childcare issue was solved. My youngest had a playdate and school agreed that the others could stay at after school club till 6.30.

Can you suggest couples therapy, as it's clear neither of you can communicate effectively with each other.

However I do think he's being emotionally abusive towards you. Just because you refuse to discuss things when angry, or tell him things too late doesn't mean him shouting or getting verbally abusive is your fault. Regardless of what's happened, shouting isn't ever ok.

This is an LTB situation. You were honest in your initial post, but have spent the rest if the thread minimising, back-pedalling and trying to make it look as though this is your fault, which it very clearly isn't.

And I am also a little bit to blame because I have let it get like this.

You have let him behave like this? No. He chooses to behave like this. He is the only person to blame for his own behaviour. He has made you doubt yourself so much that you are painting your own perfectly normal and reasonable behaviour as unreasonable, while trying to pretend there are good excuses for his completely unreasonable behaviour.

@IHateArguments I have been there...... I put up with being screamed at for hours.....for over 30 years......eventually it did turn physical... Its like he thought he could say or do anything cruel and mean verbally because he was angry and he was hurting therefore he had to lash out and hurt me emotionally. I had enough last year.......and left and am now divorcing. It is not okay to scream at someone - if you love someone you do not treat them that way and if that is what they think is love then I dont want it.... They end up thinking that they can say anything as you are going to be a doormat and take it and never leave...
Dont put your kids through this - they will hear him shouting and in a few years he will start doing it to them too.

I now come home to peace and quiet.....its wonderful....no more walking in the door with a pit in my stomach waiting to see if I have nice H or nasty H

I think Covid has changed a lot of people and also now with the cost of living crisis, it's sending some people over the edge,especially if they are not great at expressing themselves. X

I will suggest it, I'm just worried he won't take it well.

I'm sorry I'm coming across as so feeble. I just feel really edgy and stressed, and really tired (weird combination).

My goodness this is an LTB situation if any thing ever was. You’re scared to tell him things. He shouted at you for an hour. Later said it was your fault.

This is no way to live, for you or your children, who absolutely WILL be picking up on it all.

And do not on any account have couples therapy with him. Couples therapy is never recommended with an abuser.

You are not being feeble, it takes strength to put in work to fix a relationship.

you need to be clear though, whilst you might have watched your relationship deteriorate, you are not to blame for it, he is responsible for his own behaviour. Until he accepts that, things won’t change.

you need to put a stop to it now, insist on counselling etc (for him before you have it as a couple, he needs to work on him first) and if he won’t then it could become a LTB situation, but if he is willing to put in the work then it can be the right thing to stay with him - AS LONG AS YOU ARE SAFE

Reputable therapists will not do joint counselling where there us abuse - it has to be individual.

Grumpy stbx in my case I’m leaving don’t know when but I can’t wait no more grumpiness I can walk away if we meet for a coffee. I’ve had it up to here with grumpiness moods snappiness. Funny enough he’s not too bad now I pull him up now. I’d get duck in a row and make plans to leave walking on egg shelves is just miserable. Been there don’t that never again.

You can't change his behaviour. You can only choose what you will and won't tolerate.

It's difficult if you've got into a pattern of him being allowed to shout at you and you feeling ashamed for minding that. It's absolutely healthy and right that you don't want to be shouted at and bullied.

So if you feel that you love each other and want to stay together, you need to have some clear boundaries for yourself that you stick to. That might look like - if he starts to raise his voice you immediately raise your hand and say loudly "I need to stop you there. There is absolutely no reason for you to speak to me like that, and I won't have it." If he continues you could leave the room.

Perhaps you could get your own counselling if he won't agree to go, and maybe that would help you to find a way to stay together without continuing those patterns, by you breaking your part of the pattern (which is allowing yourself to live like this). Or counselling might help you to clarify your thoughts about whether this relationship really works for you and what you want to do about it. You clearly don't want to continue with things as they are.

It probably is a good idea and I've been thinking about it. I find that I am too anxious and behaving in an avoidant way. I find that I wake up all through the night and I was bolt awake at 5.30 feeling really churned up, I've got stomach cramps because I'm stressing, etc. etc. Definitely not normal!

I think you should LTB or he needs to take some big fucking steps to show you he's serious about changing. He needs anger therapy and you probably need couples therapy to learn how to talk without blowing up or shutting down.

Where are your kids when these outbursts happen? What's it teaching them about communication? They can't feel safe, especially if it can go on for hours. It must be horrible to live in your house wondering if you're going to set off a fuse. It's not ok that he just shouts at you, it'll affect everyone and it's clear emotional abuse.

He needs to take accountability for his actions or he's going to lose his family, you can't go on much longer like this.

He's abusing you. Sorry if you're scared by that but what he's doing isn't normal married people arguing.

I can't tell you what to do but there are charities that will listen and can advise, please start thinking about how to respond.

If you are waking up feeling like that you need to think about (and take responsibility for) how your children feel waking up every morning. Every day they will not know what mood their dad is going to be in. That is no way for children to grow up

Also your manager absolutely knows what is going on, or has a very good idea, and was likely giving you an opportunity to talk. Take that opportunity

This...

This is vile emotional abuse stuff...

Yelled at for an hour over stuff outside your control? Nah...

I will freely admit that I'm annoying as hell in arguments because I just go quiet or say I don't want to continue the discussion while he's so angry.

That's not annoying, that's normal.

It's your husband who acts abnormal in arguments. Most adults don't react like that to disagreement/stressful situations.

It sounds like you don't feel able to communicate effectively with him.

It sounds like there are things you can say, and things you can't.

I think you have three options;

1. find a time when all is well and tell him that you're finding he's getting angry more frequently and that you don't like it. It's affecting your relationship and you need it to change or you'll have to think about what you do going forwards as you can't spend your whole life in confrontational situations with him.

2. you do nothing. You accept this is the way it all, and you accept the damage he causes you and your kids. (Unless they're deaf, they will be hearing it and feeling awful for you).

3. you insist on relationship counselling or you're leaving.

He needs to know that's not acceptable language, whether he's stressed, angry or whatever.

This is correct. Maybe someone could link to the recent thread where a woman talked about how her therapist colluded with husband's abuse. Lots of comments saying similar.

Therapy on your own could be an idea though.

Please stop suggesting relationship counselling. This is not a relationship problem. It's an abuse problem. Couples counselling in this situation is a terrible idea.

I hate that that you cannot see that you’re husband is abusing you. And I hate that you’re making immense excuses for him and blaming yourself.

Would you treat someone you supposedly love the way he’s treating you? No. It’s abhorrent behaviour.

Echoing that relationship counselling isn’t going to work. OP you’re with an abusive man here, he may not be physically hurting you but the level of emotional damage he’s going to be doing to you AND your children is massive. Just because he doesn’t aim his shouting at the children doesn’t mean it’s not emotionally harming them.

Go for some counselling on your own, and try to find a therapist who specialises in trauma therapy, it’s absolutely invaluable!

This sounds exactly like my abusive ex who'd rant and rave and shout in my face whilst I sat there quietly then later tell me it was my fault and if I didn't accept that "apology" that wasn't an actual apology and accept it was all down to me he'd start off again.

It was the same as you, according to him no one else made him as angry as I did (over basically anything and everything). What I realise now is that he just didn't feel comfortable enough with anyone else to show his true self. He couldn't act like that with colleagues because he'd get fired. He couldn't act like that with friends because he'd had none. He couldn't act like that with strangers because he'd get a punch in the face. It's horrible to know that they CAN help how they are/ control themselves in other situations but don't with you.

I was the same, scared to tell him anything that I knew would send him off.

He turned physical in the end, not saying your husband will of course, but mine did. I actually found the emotional side worse personally it still affects me today. I felt completely worthless by the time I'd left and like I was just useless at everything, just really annoying and hardwork because that's what he'd made me feel, everything I did was wrong, I was stupid and no good at anything. I was apologising every 5 minutes to everyone in my life for every little thing.

I'm married to my now DH. He works a stressful jobs and like everyone he has his moments where he's a bit of a grump but they are few and far between and one thing I noticed is that even when he is being a dick I'm not scared. I don't sit there quietly, if he's being a dick I'll damn well tell him he's being a dick, I don't sit there cowering when we argue, I don't apologise for things I don't think I've done wrong. Yeah we argue like most couples do, we aren't perfect. But I actually love the fact that WE argue. It's not just him shouting at me like it was with ex! Weird thing to love about a relationship I know!

So yes it is LTB situation OP especially if he doesn't realise it's a problem and take ownership of how he's making you feel and make changes to himself.

Yeah, I was like this when I was living with my abuser too. Sadly I couldn't dump him, but my mother could have. She thought it was partly her fault and he'd never do it to the kids and he used to be lovely.

He too thought he could tell us all to fuck off, to fucking die, that we were shits and parasites and whatnot, and we should know that he didn't mean it and not be upset by it.

@IHateArguments read this. And then read it again.

@IHateArguments it is painful and bewildering to realise that you are in an abusive relationship - I told myself I was over-reacting/had imagined it/had caused the problem in some way - but eventually, sadly, I saw it for what it was, with the help of the girls on here.

I am now on my own with the DC and life day-to-day is easier and sunnier and happier. No eggshells, no wondering what the kids saw/overheard or comforting them when he’d shouted at them.

you all deserve better lovely, take the time you need to take this in, read Lundy Bancroft or do the Freedom Programme, and then when you’re ready get yourself and the kids away from him. If you do it before you’re convinced you’ll persuade yourself to go back…and if you’re seeing a therapist make sure it’s someone who understands abuse.