To end this friendship now I know what she would really think of me….

[EmptyHouse0822]

I have a friend and we met because our children go to the same school. It started off as just chatting on the playground, then going out with the children and now we will also go out just the two of us.

We have been friends for about 2.5 years and I would say we are pretty close in that we talk to each other about our problems and we know we can trust each other.

Anyhow, this morning, completely out the blue she made some very negative and distasteful comments about lesbians and although she was trying to pass it off as a joke the undertone was clear that she thought the concept of two women together was quite unpleasant.

The problem is that even though she doesn’t know it, I am bisexual and so her comments made me really uncomfortable. Obviously I’m married with children so she would have no reason at all to suspect I can be attracted to women and so wouldn’t see any reason why her comments would upset me on a personal level.

Even if I wasn’t bisexual I wouldn’t have found her comments acceptable at all.

But now I don’t know what to do. I don’t feel like I can carry on this friendship knowing how disapproving she is of an aspect of my life but as we’ve been friends for so long and out children are good friends it wouldn’t make sense to anyone if I just pulled away from her.

I don’t know how to navigate this and I’m already dreading seeing her on the school run this afternoon.

AIBU to just pull back from the friendship and tell her why?

TBF someone once decided and ran with the fact that I was a homophobe and told everyone in town and tried to get a mob against me.

Im pansexual, my best friend is a lesbian married to a woman and most of my male friends are gay - I hardly intolerant.

What was my homophobic statement?

I said in response (ironically to my gay friend) when having a convosation about those questions on forms about sexuality 'I dont really see the need for lables like gay or straight, we shouldn't really limit ourselves to finding love based on a physical features'.

She was a stranger at the bar who evesdropped our convosation but it was somehow latched on to as 'I dont believe gay people exist' somehow (im guessing they only heard the 'I dont see the need for lables like gay' without the rest of the convosation) and then twisted and then dramatised by frankly a very disturbed young woman who needed to get a life.

In the bar when it happened she was clearly drunk and screaming at us so while it was a little upsetting I just assumed it would end there when we left but then over the next few weeks her and her friend spread lies about me all over the town (I had never even met her before) and I had to contact the police about their constant harrasment.

I was already in a dark place in my life with postnatal anxiety and their constant attacks really where a kick when I was down over something they took out of context, didnt even understand and couldn't have been more wrong about.

I dont think people should lable someone for one comment that wasnt clear, a joke (depending what it was) might be bad taste but not nesacerily denoting evil.

I know someone who loves 'dead baby' jokes as they have that 'shock' kind of humour (and as someone who volunteers with child loss it can be pretty offensive) but I know they would never hurt a child in real life and it doesnt represent him actually wanting to kill children - very bad taste rather than evil hatred.

Again context is important as it ever is.

I did have 3 different friends who openly expressed 'homosexual...ewwww, I hate the way LGBT is constantly shoved down the kids' throat, inappropriate dry humping on gay parades...eww'.

Like you, it curdled my blood. Made me feel disappointed.

But they were different women

1. one still has overriding philosophy that love and kindness are the most important, but she is for changing mind organically. Hates SJW intimidation and cancel culture with passion. Now she is close with gay couple and their son and has playdates with them and would go as far as say 'every society needs LGBT! Not just let them be, they are necessary!'

2. She's Muslim (practising, hates liberal interpretation of the book) - but of course doesn't go out of the way to say that to everyone or social media. Only close friends would know her private thoughts.

3. Friend 3 - It was start of her becoming very right-wing, even without being religious. Started sending conspiracy theory links. Turning every conversation and issue into something that is a symptom of society becoming degenerate. Hysterical text messages about primary school having diversity week. Now she's worse than she's ever been.

Guess which one I don't enjoy spending time with anymore?

Only you can tell which way they will go.

Me too.

I find bigotry really offensive, and wouldn't want anyone with racist or homophobic views as a friend.

Saying someone's sexual preference or sexual activity is grim because it's gay sex is homophobic. I'm pretty depressed by how mnay people on this thread don't realise that.

Your bisexuality is your own business and your (shortly to be former) friend does not need to know.

You can be 100% heterosexual and be offended, and reasonable regardless to end the friendship because of the comments.

I don't think I agree. Society has got desensitised to heteronormative sex scenes.

Stuff my gran would have found uncomfortable to watch is routine now. Some of what's considered prime time would have been x rated when I was a teen.

We've not yet been desensitised to gay sex scenes.

I think it needs challenging rather than simply assuming the person is bigoted.

I'm less comfortable with gay sex scenes than straight- because of less exposure. I actually avoid all sex on tv these days, but have noticed a greater reaction to gay sex. I'm not bigoted. I positively support gay friends and couples. There's more to it than bigotry

At least there might be. She may actually be homophobic but don't assume it.

Speak to her when you're together without children and ask what exactly she meant as you were a bit confused by her comments.

Don't tell her she's a bigot, just discuss the subject calmly.

This person is a trusted friend of yours so it's only fair to have a talk about this and, I hope, reach a new understanding of each other.

Look for an opportunity to have a talk together and please try not to take her comments as a personal insult.

OP I think this is one of those situations where only you can decide if you want to continue the friendship or not. Nobody on here can advise.

It would change my opinion of her. I would probably distance myself from friendship. I would still consider her my child's friends mum and keep things amicable for their friendship, but would not be proper friends any more. I dont see any benefit of a conversation about it unless further down the line she pushes for a reason friendship has changed.

That's such a weird thing to come out with! Even if you're homophobic, surely you'd have the self awareness to keep it to yourself?! I don't blame you for rethinking the friendship, it says a lot about her.

No, we are allowed to have our own sexual tastes and we may well find some sexual activity grim. I find blow jobs completely grim, and find them difficult to watch, it is not to say the person receiving or giving oral sex is a 'grim person', just the activity itself is not to my taste.

There are many many sexual preferences I personally find grim and could not watch them, that doesn't mean the people involved are 'grim people', or their enjoyment of different sex practices is wrong in any way. It is just sex and personal taste.

Some people seem to hang their whole identity on sex and sexual preference. We are not defined by our sexuality as human beings, it is just one dimension of who we are.

You can not inflict your personal sexual taste on others, and insist they must like it too. It is a massive breach of people's fundamental human rights. We must retain our freedom to decide what we personally enjoy, without demeaning or disrespecting the wishes and activities of other people that make other choices.

You can't be depressed that others do not enjoy watching you having sex! That is their decision as long as they are not discriminating or judging you for your choices.

I think I’d feel a bit uncomfortable being around someone who thought I was gross (also bi). It would make me feel on edge being around them in case I was outed.

Am surprised if she is such a good friend that in 2.5 years this hasn't come up in conversation before

I personally think you're over reacting. Saying she finds gay sex scenes unpleasant to watch is fine, it's just her opinion and she's entitled to express it. Just as you're entitled to think or say different. I think its a shame to end a good friendship over that. People nowadays don't seem to allow others to have a different opinion or feel a certain way. I'm sure if you told her you are bi sexual she probably wouldn't have said it but she didn't realise. I have a close friend who's sister is a lesbian and my friend has made similar comments in a jokey way, how she thinks women are beautiful but the thought of anything sexual with them is disgusting to her.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I haven't even made my way through the full thread yet and there's already a ton of casual homophobia.

I wonder if people would be saying 'everyone's entitled to their opinions' if this were about mixed race relationships?

On second thoughts...

I would apply the same reasoning calph - people can choose whoever they like to have a relationship with, I have my own tastes for a partner. It is not racist to choose a blonde male to share my life with for example. Or if an African man choose an African woman to be his wife, and does not find me attractive I wouldn't consider him racist. I would consider that he has chosen a life partner that he finds deeply attractive, and he shouldn't be forced to be attracted to me or to pretend he is. It is his choice.

It is not different. Personal taste is personal taste.

Judging or discriminating against others for their choice is however deeply unethical and illegal.

The strongest hatred often comes from closet cases. A casually closed-minded person wouldn’t be so emphatic.

Hi, disgusting lesbian here.

Yes, this is homophobic. People are allowed to be privately homophobic. If they are homophobic, they are unlikely to want to be my friend. I suppose if I was closeted, or bisexual but in a hetero relationship like the OP, I would then have a choice about whether I wanted to be friends with her, distance myself subtly without explaining why, or distance myself after explaining why.

I think, because I tend towards openness, I'd choose the latter.

I've said YABU, not to be upset about her comments, but to walk away from the friendship just like that.

I just say that because, in my experience, bigoted views like the ones she has expressed often come from a place of ignorance, or are even just parroting comments they got into the habit of hearing from other people in an previous stage of life that they haven't given that much thought to, so when they learn that it actually applies to someone they like and are close to, it challenges their preconceptions and they often gradually end up softening their views.

S

In my opinion, it’s ok for people not to understand attraction between other people. If we all liked the same “type” there would be a lot of single people around. It’s also ok to not want to watch graphic sex scenes on a TV screen. Tbh, I’ve never really understood why they are there, as I don’t find that they actually “add” anything to a storyline at all.
Back in the day I would probably have left the room, if my DH was watching it, or now just turn over if it was just me watching. That doesn’t make me homophobic.
I do believe that there a whole host of things that people do in the bedroom that others find “grim” or “disgusting”. Some like kink and BDSM etc, and others find the idea quite horrifying. We don’t even know what the scene was depicting. There is also the “fear” of the unknown. Her words don’t seem particularly well educated tbh. What she imagines gay or lesbian sex to mean, is most likely limited to watching scenes on TV.
I can understand that the OP was taken aback, but maybe a conversation at the time might have made things a bit clearer. “Why would it be so grim for two women to kiss/ cuddle/ touch each other?” “Why would a woman’s hand feel any different to a man’s hand?” “Do you and your husband not enjoy foreplay?”

Having said that, if you are uncomfortable continuing with the friendship, then you have every right to end it. You don’t need to justify yourself to anyone, least of all a bunch of strangers on the internet.

I think probably if you just casually bring up, in a non-confrontational way, the fact you're bisexual - or, if you aren't comfortable with that, maybe talk about a friend or someone else you know instead - it might start sewing the seed for her to start thinking about whether she really means it or whether she just said it unthinkingly. If it's the former then sure, ditch away. But people can and do change their views.

I wonder if people would be saying 'everyone's entitled to their opinions' if this were about mixed race relationships?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion on any subject. They aren’t entitled to have it listened to, agreed with, taken seriously or validated - and, if they choose to express it openly, other people are entitled to judge them for it and openly disagree with them. They’re not entitled to discriminate on the basis of that opinion, nor to incite violence or hatred; those things are (quite rightly) illegal.

OP I'm really sorry this has happened to you. What an unpleasant person she is deep down

I honestly don't think we can assume this at all. She may just be a bit on the prudish side, and tactless. I'll bet she'd have kept her thoughts to herself if she had known the OP was bi.

From your account of what she said, she doesn't sound like somebody I would want to be friends with! But you have been quite close friends for 2.5 years so presumably there are also things that you value about her. I would feel uncomfortable carrying on the friendship without responding at all to what she said, though obviously it's harder to bring it up later. I would tell her that you think that what she said was really quite offensive and made you feel uncomfortable. See how she responds and then decide what kind of relationship you still wish to have, taking into account her (presumed) good points. I don't think you have to dramatically end the friendship or make a big statement. But you may want to largely back off from her beyond arranging things for the kids, and hopefully she will realise why. I hope most straight people would do the same.

I also don't think you have to tell her you are bi-sexual if you prefer not to. Do most of your friends know? I'm assuming not as you have been close friends for a while without her knowing. Would you be happy with her telling everyone she knows?