To end this friendship now I know what she would really think of me….

[EmptyHouse0822]

I have a friend and we met because our children go to the same school. It started off as just chatting on the playground, then going out with the children and now we will also go out just the two of us.

We have been friends for about 2.5 years and I would say we are pretty close in that we talk to each other about our problems and we know we can trust each other.

Anyhow, this morning, completely out the blue she made some very negative and distasteful comments about lesbians and although she was trying to pass it off as a joke the undertone was clear that she thought the concept of two women together was quite unpleasant.

The problem is that even though she doesn’t know it, I am bisexual and so her comments made me really uncomfortable. Obviously I’m married with children so she would have no reason at all to suspect I can be attracted to women and so wouldn’t see any reason why her comments would upset me on a personal level.

Even if I wasn’t bisexual I wouldn’t have found her comments acceptable at all.

But now I don’t know what to do. I don’t feel like I can carry on this friendship knowing how disapproving she is of an aspect of my life but as we’ve been friends for so long and out children are good friends it wouldn’t make sense to anyone if I just pulled away from her.

I don’t know how to navigate this and I’m already dreading seeing her on the school run this afternoon.

AIBU to just pull back from the friendship and tell her why?

Not sure I understand the defensive 'she's entitled to her opinion' posts. Sure, she's entitled to be a homophobe. And the OP's entitled to want to call time on their friendship as a result.

OP, I'm bi and I've had a similar experience with a couple of 'friends' who were always more like frenemies really tbh. The friendships died for a number of reasons, but the fact that I couldn't be me around them was definitely a part of it, as they judged me for it. Less of a homophobia thing in this case, than a case of them thinking I shouldn't have any sexual feelings that weren't attached to my husband, but definitely a nail in the coffin. (To be clear, I wasn't acting on my bisexuality, but didn't feel I should have to pretend it wasn't a part of my character either.)

Your friend, on the other hand, does sound homophobic and I'd struggle to maintain a friendship after hearing those remarks.

Okay, bit of drip feed.

So her remarks were homophobic and a somewhat extreme tbh, telling her husband to turn of the tv because it was 'disgusting'.

As pp said it's up to you what you do with that information OP but I imagine it's going to make you very uncomfortable around her, knowing that if she is made aware that you are bisexual she might make similar comments about you.

She’s got the right to feel the way she feels about lesbians. She also got the right to dislike them and say whatever she wants. The same way you’ve got the right to challenge her. So don’t be coward next time and tell her about your feelings straight away.

Her husband, her tv. Why should she be policing herself in her own house?

I’m straight and don’t fancy the thought of being with a woman but I also don’t like the thought of being with a lot of the men I come in contact with. I would find it grim to have sex with Joe from accounts or whatever. I don’t see why people have to comment on who people have sex with. Not their business and no one is forcing them.

I would have called her out on it.

Not really. Hate speech is a criminal offence so it would depend on the context.

Sorry this happened to you OP, what an unpleasant shock. If you feel like you can, it might be worth challenging her views as she clearly assumes you to be straight, and assume that, as a straight person, you’d be an appropriate person to air her homophobic views to. Personally, I would withdraw quite a bit from a friendship with someone once they’d said something like that, and you might not feel very safe trying to open her eyes to what she said. That’s fair enough too.

I think you’re overreacting x I do not find being with a woman pleasant and my daughter is bisexual. However, that is my point of view and I am completely fine with anyones sexuality. I just want people to be happy. However, I would feel that I should be able to share my view in a safe space with a close friend without judgement.
I think you should be honest with your friend, I’d be absolutely horrified if one of my friends felt that my personal opinion of this would affect how I viewed them. It’s not for me, but that doesn’t make it wrong for anyone else.

Her husband, her tv. Why should she be policing herself in her own house?

Because she didn't confine her remarks to her husband & her tv, but felt free to inflict them on OP.

Sorry that needed spelling out to you @Booboobeth

I am really surprised at the responses here. These comments are horrendously offensive and homophobic. If a friend of mine did something like this I would call it out immediately and the friendship would be over for me. I’m straight but homophobia is completely unacceptable to me regardless of my personal orientation, just like racism or misogyny or dishonesty are all things I wouldn’t tolerate in a friend.

I would clarify with her how she feels about gay people being together before I dropped the friendship altogether.

'So you said the other day you peronsally find two women/men being together grim. Are you against gay people being together or did you mean you personally don't like it?'

Depending on her answer - I would base my decision on that. She will either say she personally finds the idea of being sexual with a woman grim and doesn't find women attractive' (she is entitled to hold that view)
Or she finds the idea of anyone being gay grim and unpleasant and that is homophobic.

She doesn't have to like seeing women together, or to find it pleasant to see
But she does need to know it is entirely acceptable for others to be openly gay and that is totally their choice, and be respectful of that choice.

If she was talking about her own desires that is fine, if she was generalising about the concept that is not okay.

Either way, if she has offended you - you should say and give her the chance to apologise. She may not have meant it the way it sounded.

I feel like it's a waste of time trying to explain to some people. They obviously hold the same views as the OPs friend and are desperately trying to convince themselves it's ok.

@Oddbobbyboo would you describe sex between two men as “disgusting” though? That crosses a line

That's explicit homophobia

It’s not. She hasn’t said “I can’t stand gays/wouldn’t want one teaching my children/shouldn’t be allowed/they should all be sent to the Isle of Man”. (Actual comments I have heard and challenged.). She has expressed a rather tactless opinion and stated her own preference under circumstances which, if she’d known the full facts, hopefully wouldn’t have done.

But not liking something doesn’t make you “phobic”. She’s allowed not to like watching gay sex. Doesn’t mean she thinks it shouldn’t be allowed on the TV or that people should be prosecuted for doing it. I’m allowed not to like shellfish; but it would be bloody tactless to say to a friend who was about to go to an expensive seafood restaurant as a birthday treat “Who’d want to eat that disgusting sea shit - total recipe for food poisoning”. She was inadvertently very tactless. She may or may not hold homophobic views - but it’s unfair to infer that from this particular exchange.

I am really surprised at the responses here.

I'm not, sadly.
Mainstream mumsnet is a hotbed of ill-concealed lesbophobia.
Gay men seem to be tolerated a little more, so long as they conform to the stereotypical "woman's best mate" trope - but gay women? Almost as bad as stepmums ...

I would speak to her

I’d have had to say something there and then. You don’t need to be aggressive to confront someone, usually asking them to explain their views is enough to make them stop and think.

An old family friend revealed themselves to be abhorrently racist recently by suggesting that all Asian men are looking to rape young white girls. I was gobsmacked but I just said “you really believe that every single Asian man wants to rape young girls, do you?” A simple question, but she faltered, saw the look on my face, saw the implication of what she said, protested that she wasn’t racist and when I asked the same question again, backed down completely.

Obviously I wouldn’t bother with this if I was conversing with a member of the EDL (unlikely), but a lot of people will be embarrassed at being challenged.

That way you’ve at least made your own standing clear and not left her with the impression that at best, you think homophobia is ok, and worst, that your viewpoints align with hers.

Completely agree with this.

I will add that the use of “disgusting” was a poor choice of words. But people use this all the time in casual speech. I constantly pick up my DD on this as she’ll say a lot of food is “disgusting”. I say “no DD, what you mean is that you don’t like it and it isn’t to your taste”. People say this quite unthinkingly.

Can I also add I don't like seeing sex scenes at all on TV. It makes me feel like at least one party is being violated, and I don't like the feeling of voyeurism even if it is acting. I have always felt deeply uncomfortable watching women of any sexuality being groped and touched, knowing many of them didn't want to, but it was part of the 'job' I can't see the difference between many of the sex scenes we see and porn. So I can see her point. I also find some scenes triggering.

It needs a deeper conversation op, before you make up your mind. You are close, but you don't know her history.

But not liking something doesn’t make you “phobic”.

The literal meaning of homophobia is a dislike or prejudice against gay people.

Jesus. This place.

Obviously if it turns out she was not talking about her personal tastes, she was speaking generally of course you end the friendship. Immediately and I would tell her why as well. She will learn nothing if you just drop her out of the blue. Spell it out.
'Your views are homophobic, please take some time to reflect on how others might feel listening to that. I am finding it very hard to get past it, and can't see you the same way after hearing that'

What @Festoonlights said. Try to understand what she meant, and then make your decision. Bear in mind she might realise its not OK to display homophobic opinions in decent society and try to backtrack, so I would keep an eye out for future behaviour if I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Personally I can't stand homophobia and would make the choice not to maintain the relationship if she was a homophobe.

Imagine if one of the kids were gay and overheard her comments 😞

I think you are getting mixed up.

You can't dislike someone for being gay. Full stop. That is discrimination.

But you can dislike the idea of you personally having sex with a woman, and not find it appealing to watch. That is called personal taste and freedom of choice.

I dislike the idea of me having sex with a woman, that does not mean I dislike the idea of other women having sex with other women, that is completely their choice.

I don't have to like seeing sex between anyone!

I once made a joke out of being gay. I didn't actually mean it. It was a knee jerk response, and I basically parroted what my husband had said the night before. Straightaway I knew it was wrong and did say, I was joking and didn't mean that. If my children are gay that's fine with me. My daughter told me that she was under the impression that her adult son is gay. I resolved not to make a joke again at anyone's expense, but my own. I wouldn't hold this against her, nor cut her off. Think of something good to say, if she mentions it again. Perhaps, " I don't have a problem with gay people. People have to do what makes them happy." Kind of thing.