To end this friendship now I know what she would really think of me….

[EmptyHouse0822]

I have a friend and we met because our children go to the same school. It started off as just chatting on the playground, then going out with the children and now we will also go out just the two of us.

We have been friends for about 2.5 years and I would say we are pretty close in that we talk to each other about our problems and we know we can trust each other.

Anyhow, this morning, completely out the blue she made some very negative and distasteful comments about lesbians and although she was trying to pass it off as a joke the undertone was clear that she thought the concept of two women together was quite unpleasant.

The problem is that even though she doesn’t know it, I am bisexual and so her comments made me really uncomfortable. Obviously I’m married with children so she would have no reason at all to suspect I can be attracted to women and so wouldn’t see any reason why her comments would upset me on a personal level.

Even if I wasn’t bisexual I wouldn’t have found her comments acceptable at all.

But now I don’t know what to do. I don’t feel like I can carry on this friendship knowing how disapproving she is of an aspect of my life but as we’ve been friends for so long and out children are good friends it wouldn’t make sense to anyone if I just pulled away from her.

I don’t know how to navigate this and I’m already dreading seeing her on the school run this afternoon.

AIBU to just pull back from the friendship and tell her why?

I’m sorry this happened op. Such a disappointment for you when you felt she was a close friend. Those comments were terrible and it’s understandable to leave that friendship. However if you do value her as a friend it might be worth digging a bit into her upbringing and family and get some insight into her views? People can change and her views are just ignorance. Maybe you can be the one to enlighten her and broaden her narrow mind…..good luck whatever you do.

It will be difficult to talk to her after school as we will have all the children with us and it’s not really something I would like to discuss in front of them.

And for posters who say it is fine for her to verbalise that she thinks homosexuality is grim and disgusting….I’m honestly gob smacked. I just don’t understand how it is okay to say it out loud to other people.

If that’s her opinion then fine, she’s entitled to it but she shouldn’t be going around saying it in such an awful manner.

Maybe she did think our friendship was a safe space where she could talk without fear of judgement (as a precious poster had said) but this goes way beyond the safe “sharing of views” in my opinion.

As long as she doesn't discriminate against LGB people, it's ok.
She does. See OP's update.

Gay friends of mine find it heterosexual love scenes utterly degoutant, whatever floats their boat.
Is that a fact?
My gay friends find (vanilla - tv-acceptable) straight sex scenes no more repugnant than gay scenes.
I'm the same, vice-versa. Why would it be otherwise?

I'd say it's not that socially acceptable anymore to make overt comments about being LGB but I have Muslim mum friends who do not hide their distaste. I own't be cutting them out as they are incredibly strong and kind women.
OK - so you put being inclusive & religiously tolerant higher up your personal scale than not accepting homophobia. That obviously works for you & your muslim friends.
But what happens if you also have a gay friend? Do you have to live your life in compartments, making sure there's no overlap?

Gay isn't for everyone.
Fucksake.
"I'm not homophobic, I just believe in special pleading, & that it's ok to display my Tolerant Credentials by being mates with people whose religion sometimes means they cannot actually tolerate ... approx 10% of the population."
Gay IS for everybody.
Homophobia is either wrong or right. As we now at long last have UK legislation to support the obvious fact that your orientation should not make you subject to discrimination, that law (& just as importantly, morality) IS for everyone.

If you don't discriminate or special plead for straight atheists, you don't get to special plead for straight muslims. I'm not saying your should force feed your religious pals with all the reasons you disagree with them - but a gentle "in this culture/religion/sector of society, being gay isn't seen the same way as you see it - I'm ok with that, & I hope you don't expect me to pretend otherwise?"

Outright homophobia.

thinking someone is disgusting for being different is still a hate crime

Sorry - this is straight out of Orwell. Anybody can - and should be able to - think anything they wish to. There is no “thought crime”. I can’t tell you how dangerous this sort of thinking can become. We must have freedom of speech - with appropriate limits (and “hate crime” must and should be very clearly defined at the boundaries of that). But I firmly believe that anyone is perfectly entitled to say that they like or dislike anything- just as anyone else is perfectly entitled to disagree or judge them for those preferences. It’s the cornerstone of a free society at heart.

I would not bother to mention your sexuality
Most people are just not interested in other people's private lives
Personally I and my other half are into fetishy etc so what
We do not need other people's approval to do what we are into
If some people do not like it why would I care

Indeed. But this woman hasn’t said she doesn’t like all lesbians. Or hates all gay people.

She's able to watch straight scenes, but she finds even the thought of gay sex abhorrent, & felt empowered to regale OP with her views that lesbians are "grim" & "disgusting".
She doesn't have to actually print off a statement saying "I hate gays" to make her bigotry any more plain.

She came from a very difficult background, she grew up with her mum and dad, they had her very young and she was the oldest of three children. Both her parents were drinkers and would argue in front of her, they’d push each other and hit each other and generally she was very isolated and vulnerable and living within a dangerous environment really.

She met her now husband when they were both 16 so she has only ever had one partner (romantically and sexually) and he is a really lovely man. She’s done well considering her upbringing, she’s in a professional job, nice husband who is also a professional, beautiful children, gorgeous house, nice holidays abroad etc…. it’s the kind of life some people would look at and wish they had it for themselves.

I think that is why I was so horrified when something so ugly came out of her mouth. I honestly couldn’t believe she’d said it.

I would have to ask her to clarify, via text possibly easier as it's not a conversation to have with your children around.

"Jane, I was a bit shocked at what you said about gay people this morning which is why I didn't say anything at the time. Did you mean that you think gay people having sex is grim and disgusting or that you personally wouldn't want sex with a woman?"

Her response would likely tell you all you need to know as if she has very badly worded the fact that she herself wouldn't want gay sex she will likely be mortified and will explain that. If she is defensive or doubles down on what she said then I would end the friendship and be very clear as to why. She does need to be challenged on it.

Oh ye gods it's time for the Bullshit Translator to get dusted off:
"Homophobia is FINE so long as there aren't any of those pesky gays in the room. If we'd only known you were One Of Them, obviously we'd have confined our horrible remarks to behind your back."

I'm quite surprised to see people say she is entitled to think that way. No, she really isn't.

Well yes, she really is.

We do not have 'thought police' and a person's thoughts are their own business, as long as they don't act on those thoughts.

And as regard 'thinking' someone is disgusting for being different, whilst making you a bigot and a horrible human being, and not someone most decent people would want to associate with, is most definitely not a hate crime.

People are free to 'think' whatever they like. You can't be prosecuted for your thoughts. As long you take it no further than thinking it and don't act on it, your thoughts are your own.

I’m straight, so wouldn’t take it personally. But equally, I wouldn’t want to be friends with a homophobe. I’d challenge her comments.

She might be testing the waters because she’s unhappy with her DH and is wondering if there’s something more in your friendship.

She might be a homophobe.

You’ll only be able to tell if you need to distance yourself from her by challenging her comments and seeing if she’s just homophobic and rude,
or unhappy and needing support from a friend.

100% this ^

I would make sure that she was not grossed by a depiction rather than the real thing. Sometimes the depiction of sex/relationship can be so gross and vulgar that you just have to switch off. And I'm talking heterosexual stuff here. If she is your friend there might be space for improvement.

@Ravenpuff93 absolutely not! I can’t recall saying it was disgusting between two woman!! I just said it wasn’t for me! Love comes in all forms.

Depends what she said doesn't it?

I'm straight and the thought of sex with a woman? Bleurrrggh. No thank you

I'm allowed to say that.

If she said something bad about all lesbians then that's different.

I've met several muslims, caribbeans, people of religious persuasion or atheist, various backgrounds, particularly in my business life, & on a few occasions this has come up.

There was no need for the kind of hysterical denouncement your Straw Man argument wants to portray.
I simply & calmly stated that people don't CHOOSE their orientation, & that I'm personally comfortable with lesbian, gay, bi, or whatever folk. Leaving room for the other party to state their views, why they hold them, & sometimes even reach some kind of uneasy compromise & agreement to leave the subject alone.

Quite often, the sticking point of the homophobe is that they sincerely believe that being gay is a choice. They therefore perceive it as a deliberate social aberration, a snub to straight or god-fearing folk. It was interesting to see their faces & general demeanour soften just a little when I explained why I (& biology!) happen to disagree.

As to visiting Iran or Pakistan, your Straw Man here makes you look like a twit.
I'd be a guest in that country, & keep my opinions to myself as a matter of courtesy to my hosts. Let alone simple life-preservation - or are you seriously pretending that unless someone declares themselves an international target for homophobes, they lack the courage of their convictions?

There is nothing wrong with clarifying what she said quietly later.

You will know precisely where you stand with her once you have clarified if was talking about her own personal taste or if she was talking generally.
That is a very important conversation to have.

She is allowed to find the idea of having sex with a woman herself repellent, of course it is her right to follow her own sexuality and be honest and authentic about that, but the idea she thinks the concept of anyone else being gay repellent is blatantly homophobic. There is a world of difference between the two. I am worried you have got the wrong end of the stick, as I don't know anyone at all that would be so openly homophobic. It is pretty unheard of these days, and I don't blame you for being upset. I would be upset and I am straight. I would call it out there and then and would be happy for my dc to learn how to do it! As I have taught my dc both through example and instruction that you always challenge homophobic/racism/sexism - you call it out every time firmly and politely.

I would just tell her you were shocked and surprised by her homophobic comments.

Make it clear you disagree and find them unacceptable.

See how she responds. Do it by text if it's easier.

She may back down or double down. Then you can decide if you want to be friends.

No need to bring your own experience into it.

That's explicit homophobia and your question should be, do you want to be friends with someone who is comfortable holding and expressing homophobic beliefs, rather than the fact that she disapproves of you.

I'm heterosexual but if I heard those views casually coming out of someones mouth it would be a hard no from me for a friendship going forward. You don't need to explain yourself to her, just facilitate the kids friendship to continue and take yourself out of the picture with her.

If you try to explain yourself, she will very likely deny being homophobic and get defensive at the perceived accusation, and your relationship will be screwed anyway. Head high and find better people.

That's the weirdest conversation! Whyever would she give a shit about watching a programme with gay people in it?!!

My guess would be she's either religious or closeted herself.

It's a very strange attitude.

She met her now husband when they were both 16 so she has only ever had one partner (romantically and sexually)

Interesting. Well, that sounds like classic ignorance and insecurity then. Even the kind of defensive homophobia people have to shut down any feelings they might have about wanting to explore beyond the one person they've ever been with. Protesteth too much etc.

If you can be arsed, enlighten her - that her views aren't acceptable at the very least, and that gay people are neither grim nor disgusting but all individuals with as many facets as everyone else and how they have sex is as phwoar or as a blerugh as the next person, not ripe for some horribly sweeping condemnation.

Wow how offensive is our post. It must be the epitome of white privilege to compare being put off by someone's sexual preference to being put off by someone based on their ethnicity. Intersectionality is really quite racist (and sexist).

The op's friend (ex friend?) is not treating anyone differently, she switched her TV off as she finds gay love scenes unpleasant and mentioned this to her friend. As said upthread, my gay friends are quite vocal about how disgusting certain heterosexual practices are to them and it's clear they find the idea or image repulsive.

As for No, she really isn't (allowed to think that way), are you for real?

I don't think you need to end this friendship. Presumably you get on with each other generally. I think you can, at appropriate times (like when she made this comment) make it clear that you disagree with her. You can do this nicely and, over time she will probably come round to a live and let live approach. At the very least, you can be mums of kids who are friends and, when your kids drift apart of grow up enough for parents not to be involved, you will find that you see little of her and you have't harmed your kids' friendships.

Can you speak to her OP and tell her that you were shocked at what she had said because it is bigoted? Her response should tell her a lot about whether to continue the friendship, or how to as you have DC who are friends. You do not need to say that you are bisexual in order to object to the bigotry of her remarks. In fact until you know how she will react, and therefore if your friendship has a future, it might be safer to keep it to yourself unless you don't mind it being generally known. Some people turn vindictive in situations like this.