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Original poster

Fucking hate this term

1000 replies

MolliciousIntent · 31/08/2022 19:03

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:08

@mnmoaner

It comes across that way.

Not one of you on this thread talking about how wms can't be full time mums as they don't do enough parenting seems to have considered the possibility that they can do enough parenting

ThePastafarian · 02/09/2022 16:08

@Topgub I knew there'd be some. It's lovely that all the pieces of the puzzle have fallen into place for you.

Vincitveritas · 02/09/2022 16:09

ThePastafarian · 02/09/2022 16:05

God, I hate these threads. It always turns into a fight between the two camps (which I'll avoid labelling as it's apparently impossible to do without someone taking exception!) My theory (since no one asked!) is that so few of us manage the balance we'd ideally like that we're all defensive and, on some level, feel over-sttetched and under-appreciated. (I am very happy for those of you able to come on here and tell me I'm wrong and you're absolutely content with your work-parenting balance. There must be some.)

For every mum forced to work because they can't afford not to, there's one who is priced out of work because childcare costs more than they'd earn. For every one losing their identity stuck at home with little kids all day, there's one who feels like they're missing out because of the time they spend at work. We need better subsidised childcare, and an expectation of flexibility at work as the norm, plus men to see both sides of the 'work' as equally their responsibility. We don't need more bitchy threads about how the other camp is just defensive/lazy/absent/purposeless/a part-time parent/luckier than we are/otherwise lacking.

I know it was not the OP's intention to be unkind to anyone. I think it's illustrative of how so many of us are self-conscious about what we do and don't do, and fall into bouncing our defensiveness off each other in a way that benefits nobody.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've a soapbox to climb off and I'm not very elegant up here. 🧐

Bravo! 👏

Faciadipasta · 02/09/2022 16:10

It's great that you're so happy with your life @Topgub. I'm really not sure why you feel the need to be so aggressive to everyone who lives differently though. I honestly haven't read a single person on here who is making all the claims you seem to be repeating that SAHP make about parents who work.

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 16:10

Topgub - well if the truth be known, I did stay at home because I wanted to do all those things. I also stayed home because I believe they are better off with me than a nanny or childminder. Di shoot me. I don't need to go around telling people that though because I'm aware it could sound insensitive. But surely, it's obvious why I would stay at home if I had three young kids. What would you like me to say - I stayed home to mow the lawn?

Ilikepinacoladass · 02/09/2022 16:10

Vincitveritas · 02/09/2022 09:36

To all the people saying stay at home parents are not working - would you say the same to a Nanny/Childminder/Nursery Assistant? There's no difference.

Ummm yes there is, like the difference between working as a cleaner, and doing your own cleaning. There is lots of 'work' in daily life, but it's only a 'job' if you're getting paid for it / doing it professionally

FaptainClubby · 02/09/2022 16:13

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:01

@FaptainClubby

Your first comment on this was a personal attack on me and there's been several other since.

Now you're demanding I respond to your questions and denying you've been personal

🤣

Okay. I’m not ‘demanding’ you can keep trying to twist it to fit your agenda. And what I said was factual - I’ve seen you on multiple threads going on about how you’d NEVER let yourself or your partner be SAHP, making out it’s beneath you, making out that SAHM are letting women down, that there is something negative about it, yet you’re here saying that SAHP don’t respect you and other WM.

anyway, you can continue to be obtuse. It might be worth reading back on your own posts on these threads, as it’s all clear to see.

Maybe you need to work out why you feel the need to join in all of the SAHP parent threads and attempt to put them down. Maybe it’s not jealousy, maybe it’s insecurity about your own choices. Maybe you just have issues with women making choices that don’t look like yours. Either way, saying that SAHM are some how damaging womens rights is really disgusting. I’d you are a true supporter of women you will support their choices whether you agree with them or not.

Have a lovely evening. I am also out, you can’t argue with someone who is denying their own words and inventing ones to put into the mouth of anyone who disagrees with them.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:13

@Faciadipasta

You not seeing it doesn't mean it's not there.

There was a blatant post saying how awful wms were. That it was fucking shit for kids.

Just like you perceive me to be aggressive.

I'm not.

I'm not even unique.

Lots of other posters are saying exactly what Iam

Crumpleton · 02/09/2022 16:14

pinklavenders · 02/09/2022 15:31

I think (as always) is that part of the problem is that sahms think all wm parent like their ohs.

What exactly do sahms think? I don't understand.

I was a SAHM until my DC started school then went PT fitting in with jobs that worked around the DC and as they got older progressed with work.
In all honesty until I read this thread I didn't have any thoughts on WM Vs SAHM's and now having read it all I still don't....admittedly I did used to feel for both if the parent/s couldn't make it to a school event which DC was in but not in a judging way.
People will do what works for them and their families, each to their own and as long as it doesn't affect others let them be.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:15

@FaptainClubby

You being unable to argue with me isn't my problem. I cant help that you can't cope with a differing opinion

Have a nice night.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:16

@mnmoaner

You're missing the point.

Wms do those things too.

Sisisisi · 02/09/2022 16:17

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 16:02

"For clarity @Topgub made the point that many SAHP with DH doing long hours etc may assume that all WOHP work those type of hours."

Why on earth would they assume that? What are you even talking about?

Some SAHP with long hours/ away all the time DH think all WOHP work like that, hence their comments on this and other threads.

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 16:21

Of course WMs do all those things too, but they don't do them when they are at work! What part of this are you not grasping?

Vincitveritas · 02/09/2022 16:21

Ilikepinacoladass · 02/09/2022 16:10

Ummm yes there is, like the difference between working as a cleaner, and doing your own cleaning. There is lots of 'work' in daily life, but it's only a 'job' if you're getting paid for it / doing it professionally

Show quote history

It's still work. I expect you wouldn't call a nursery worker a lazy layabout who's not doing any real work. That is how some people describe SAHPs and it's just plain wrong. There is no difference in the work, except that one is being paid and the other is not. Both should be valued equally.

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 16:24

Sisisisi · are you serious? . If your DH has s very highly paid job with hours to match, do you really think that their wives can't see the difference between that and the majority of people who do a standard working week of 40 hours or similar?

FaptainClubby · 02/09/2022 16:24

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:15

@FaptainClubby

You being unable to argue with me isn't my problem. I cant help that you can't cope with a differing opinion

Have a nice night.

What? But it’s YOU who won’t listen to any other opinion?

I’ve been a SAHM out of choice, I’m now a WM. I’ve done both, I can see both sides. It’s you who won’t budge, it’s you who joins every SAHP to talk about how it’s beneath you to be a SAHM. It’s you who is saying that women who CHOOSE to be SAHM are some how damaging womens rights. You need to ask yourself why you’re so keen to put SAHM down, why you’re so insecure about your own choices.

I’m sure you will continue to not read what multiple women are saying to you and just respond with some short and sarcastic comment that makes no sense at all, so I won’t be reading any further. But I. The future, consider supporting womens choices instead of trashing those who want a different life to you. It’s great that you have found what works for you, but it doesn’t work for everyone. Some parents want to stay home to raise their kids and you have no right to be so judgemental about that, especially as you’ve never done it.

Sisisisi · 02/09/2022 16:28

For every mum forced to work because they can't afford not to, there's one who is priced out of work because childcare costs more than they'd earn. For every one losing their identity stuck at home with little kids all day, there's one who feels like they're missing out because of the time they spend at work. We need better subsidised childcare, and an expectation of flexibility at work as the norm, plus men to see both sides of the 'work' as equally their responsibility. We don't need more bitchy threads about how the other camp is just defensive/lazy/absent/purposeless/a part-time parent/luckier than we are/otherwise lacking.

I totally agree with this
I was a WOHM and a SAHP and so was DH, we were either doing one or the other.
No child care
The answer isnt to argue SAH vs WOH but to ask why men are still not held responsible for child care !

Sisisisi · 02/09/2022 16:30

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 16:24

Sisisisi · are you serious? . If your DH has s very highly paid job with hours to match, do you really think that their wives can't see the difference between that and the majority of people who do a standard working week of 40 hours or similar?

Yes
Im quoting them, its not my opinion.
They speak from their experience

HyacinthKylie · 02/09/2022 16:31

Vincitveritas · 02/09/2022 16:21

It's still work. I expect you wouldn't call a nursery worker a lazy layabout who's not doing any real work. That is how some people describe SAHPs and it's just plain wrong. There is no difference in the work, except that one is being paid and the other is not. Both should be valued equally.

Show quote history

I sometimes wonder if the people who think full time parenting is easy are the ones that would put no effort into it themselves? You know, the ones who would sit on their phone all day watching daytime tv (not saying anyone on this thread is like that but these types of parents do exist). The parents who actually DO put in the effort and work to provide an interesting and well rounded life for their kids see how much work it is?

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:33

@FaptainClubby

That's your perception. I dont join every thread, although you certainly seem to join every one I'm on to express your displeasure that I'm sharing a view you dislike.

And you're showing up your bias by insisting I'm insecure.

I'm not. But if you insist on going down that route I guess you need to ask yourself why my comments upset you to this degree.

I'm sorry if sahm feel put down by the fact that the choice (made by men too, before I'm accused of blaming just women) promotes inequality and the gender pay gap.

I dont have to support every choice. If a woman wanted to be a sex worker do I have to support that choice because a woman is making it? What about shagging a married man? Or taking drugs? Abusing her kids? Mon the sisterhood?

I dont see any value in being a sahm. I don't have to lie and pretend thats not the case.

DreamToNightmare · 02/09/2022 16:38

I dont see any value in being a sahm. I don't have to lie and pretend thats not the case.

Not even for the children?

You don’t think there’s any value for the children by being with their parents?

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:41

@DreamToNightmare

Nope.

You dont need to be a sahm for your kids to be with their parents

Kids of sahms aren't even with their parents.

They're with their mums

my kids were with their parents

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 16:42

"The answer isnt to argue SAH vs WOH but to ask why men are still not held responsible for child care !"

I agree with this statement. I think the answer (to a large extent) is, it depends how much women want their DH to be responsible. It's all very well saying husbands should be doing 50/50. But in most marriages, people will play to their strengths to some extent. If your husband needs to go and secure multi- million £ deal that could change all of your lives, you're hardly going to say," "No sorry. You need to be here to do bath-time at 6pm so you can't go." You would be a fool to say that.

Vincitveritas · 02/09/2022 16:44

@Topgub You seem to know an awful lot about SAHPs considering you've never been one.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 16:44

@mnmoaner

Youve just answered why men aren't held responsible

They have plenty women enforcing the sexist ideals for them.

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